Monday, June 29, 2009

Diehl's Logic; Obama's Irrationality

Jackson Diehl is beginning to get it right:

...starting with a statement by Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton in May, the administration made the mistake of insisting that an Israeli settlement "freeze" -- a term the past three administrations agreed to define loosely -- must mean a total stop to all construction in the West Bank and even East Jerusalem.

This absolutist position is a loser for three reasons. First, it has allowed Palestinian and Arab leaders to withhold the steps they were asked for; they claim to be waiting for the settlement "freeze" even as they quietly savor a rare public battle between Israel and the United States. Second, the administration's objective -- whatever its merits -- is unobtainable. No Israeli government has ever agreed to an unconditional freeze, and no coalition could be assembled from the current parliament to impose one...Finally, the extraction of a freeze from Netanyahu is, as a practical matter, unnecessary.

...Curiously, though, the administration -- led by the State Department -- keeps raising the stakes. Clinton went out of her way on June 17 to disavow any agreements between the second Bush administration and Israel over "natural growth" in some settlements. In a press briefing last Monday, State Department spokesman Ian Kelly responded to a question by saying the administration opposed new construction in all areas "across the [green] line" in Jerusalem -- a definition that would prohibit Israeli building in such areas as the Jewish Quarter of the Old City.

The result of such posturing is that the administration now faces a choice between a protracted confrontation with Israel -- an odd adventure given the pressing challenges from Iran and in Iraq, not to mention the disarray of the Palestinian camp -- or a compromise, which might make Obama look weak and provide Arab states further cause to refuse cooperation...

...While further settlement expansion needs to be curbed, both the Palestinian Authority and Arab governments have gone along with previous U.S.-Israeli deals by which construction was to be limited to inside the periphery of settlements near Israel..."the Google Earth test"; if the settlements did not visibly expand, that was good enough.

...[after making a deal with Barak but here, Diehl falters] The administration could then return to doing what it intended to do all along: press Palestinians as well as Israelis, friendly Arab governments and not-so-friendly Iranian clients such as Syria to take tangible steps toward a regional settlement. Such movement would be the perfect complement to the cause of change in Iran; how foolish it would be to squander it over a handful of Israeli apartment houses.


Yacov said...

Why would you wish for further settlement be curbed?
Are you in your right mind? Whose land is it anyway?
The Arab illegal settlements are everywhere and snubbing their noses at Israel authority! I guess they are too busy tearing down the homes of real Jews.
Bibi should tell Obama to take a flying leap- with 'friends' like that who needs..

Dman said...

Does Israel really want peace? Or is it land to restore canaan. If Irael wants peace over will give land up. The settlements are recognized as illegal by international law and should be dealt with as such. Obviously the Israelis and thier supporters value the land over peace so they can restore canaan. As if everyone there should make way and jump into the sea. Not to mention the kinds of people that seem to gather in these settlements are no better than hamas extremeists like the Bat Ayin underground settlers that botched blowing up an arab all girls school. These people make good jews look bad. The settlements should be dismantled and the US should suspend all aid/trade with Israel until it proves it si commited to peace with real sacrifices and not laughable tokens with tons of stipulations.

Thankfully, finally ... and administration in the US has the balls to actuallty take a stand with Israel on this.

YMedad said...

Dman writes:

"Does Israel really want peace? Or is it land to restore canaan. If Irael wants peace over will give land up."

I ask: if Israel had none of this additional land it now administers post-1967 but the Arabs were waging a war of terror against it by the fedayeen and then the Fatah, obviously "giving back land" won't solve any problem the Arabs had then. And given the Hezbollah campaign in 2006 and the Hamas Qassam attacks since even giving up territory in 2005, Israel has a real security problem if it yields any more territory like planes won't be able to land at Ben-Gurion Airport. So, Dman, your position is all wrong. No facts, no logic.

And I agree: "These people make good jews look bad." But notice that with all the Hamas suicide bombings and the Fatah terror people like you still want Israel to yield on its historical, legal and security rights. Amazing that you don't have any empathy for Jews. (Jews with a capital J)

Dman said...


You can dance all you want to justify why jews have some god given right to throw people out of thier homes and move thugs in but I do not buy it. You can quote historical, legal(which you have none according to international law) or security rights but the only rights I am concerned about are human rights and a serious lack of these is the problem with Israel.

Yes I have empathy for Jews...the good ones. The ones who are creating and supporting the settlements and share a view to restore canaan are not the good ones though. I like them as much as I like Hamas. I view Jews as equals not special. Good and bad like everyone eles. This does not make me a Jew hater or hamas supporter as you would like it to. You should get off your high horse and try it sometime if you can bear to lower yourself. It is really not that bad down here.

Anonymous said...

We can build anywhere we want, but we must have independence to do so. We need to stop taking billions in welfare from the U.S. Once we remove the financial yoke the U.S. places on us, we can do what's best for us.

Dman said...


I agree, Israel needs to stop begging anywhere it can and learn to take care of itself for once. Believe me it is not the US fault that Israel is unable to take care of itself. It is Israels fault alone. Take credit for it and don't try to blame others.

As far as you thinking you can build anywhere you want. What makes you think you are so special that people who live there should make way for you? Don't give me that "because god said so" crap. That is just the trapings of another elitist nutbag religious group and the world has enough of them already and doesnt need yours. You think that you get to do whatever you see fit no matter who it hurts beneath you? You are far from being a victim...thieves are not victims...the ones who they steal from are. To bad the Israeli monsters and all that support them don't follow some suicide cult and darwin themselves out of existance. The world would be a much better place and good Jews would not have to suffer the backlash of israels actions.

Fat chance at you getting off your high horse, joining the human race and treating everyone with equal rights and respect huh?

YMedad said...

Dman, why is it that antisemities can't spell? is it a genetic fault? - "To bad the Israeli monsters and all that support them don't follow some suicide cult and darwin themselves out of existance."

Besides the spelling, do you really think wishing Jews to die is a smart thing to write?

And a bit of an argument, if laughable: "Don't give me that "because god said so" crap." I don't. Read my blog.

"the trapings of another elitist nutbag religious group..." Explain? We are a people, with a tradition of culture, religion, political life, literature, morality. Two other religions copied us. That isn't elitist and that isn't at all bad.

"You are far from being a victim...thieves are not victims..." I have stolen nothing. The Arabs have been trying to kill Jews and succeeding unfortunately for 80 years and launched wars against Israel. Wake up.

dman said...

Wow for someone with an education background you sure can't read and require alot of explanation of the obvious. I said "israeli monsters". How you could misconstrue this to include all jews is beyond me. Not all Jews live in Israel so you are way out there arent you. I also wrote previously refering to the bat ayin underground: "These people make good jews look bad." There are good and bad in everyone and acknowledging this in Judiasm does not make me an antisemite as much as you would really like it to. I know alot of great people that happen to be Jewish. They are humanitarians...not like you.

So good luck with your lame attempts to smear all those who do not agree with your obviously racist views.

When I said ""the trapings of another elitist nutbag religious group..." Again...refering to the extremisim within Judaism...zionists included. I believe I mentioned bat ayin underground as an example. If you think that all Jews are like them and think that I am as ignorant to believe it myself, you are mistaken on both parts. We all have seen what happens before when a group claims to have devine rights over others gains total power and runs amok...and the dangers are no different here.

You think you have stolen nothing? You are the "unofficial defender of judea and samaria" no? These are settled areas no? You are a cog in the wheel and just as guilty. Not the whiney victim bokhim ve-yorim. You are just a tranparant propagandist that relies on the ignorance of your audience to curry support. Thankfully you flat out lack the skills to realize your Orwellian dreams. You should give up the propaganda biz and make way for someone with better skills at it. You would be doing those you claim to defend a better service. There must be someone out there that can do better than twisting someones words or pointing out spelling errors in an attempt to discredit them. Obviously it is beyond you.