The Transcript

Sorry for the delay.

Here's the relevant transcript from the BBC's Reith Lecture with the participation of Daniel Barenboim and I that took place in Jerusalem last month:-

SUE LAWLEY:

Let me call er Yisrel Medad (?) - he's Vice Chairman of Israel Media Watch, an organisation set up to provide a critical voice on radio and television reporting here. Mr Medad?

YISRAEL MEDAD:

Mr Barenboim, you have been described as a courageous idealist to believe that symphonic music can heal human conflict. And during a visit to Ramallah August 2003 you said of the Israel/Arab conflict that there is no military solution either morally or strategically. And just recently, even today, you said that there's a very major difference between power and strength, that if you attack a chord with more power than you are going to sustain it, it has no strength. But is it not possible that you are simply fiddling away - to misappropriate the metaphor - extending succour to a terrorist entity, now supported by a popular vote, while Israel's security is endangered by the sounds of Qassam rockets, this despite the withdrawal from Gaza, as well as the loud bangs of suicide bombers who continue to kill its citizens and tourists. Perhaps it is the Arabs now who are mistakenly using too much force.

DANIEL BARENBOIM:

Well, mm hm...

(APPLAUSE)

The whole idea of unilateral action is something completely foreign to me, because I know that unilateral action can only be short-term. And just remember, the war ended in 1967. A unilateral action in 1970, 71, 82, 83, 94, 96, 2001, 2002, may have had a certain element even of generosity to it, but now it is only being done by force. And I don't see what there is to congratulate ourselves for a pull back from a place where we should have never been. Sorry.

SUE LAWLEY:

But Daniel, just...

(APPLAUSE)

SUE LAWLEY:

(DURING APPLAUSE)

The, the, the, the, sub...

YISRAEL MEDAD:

Mr Barenboim...

SUE LAWLEY:

Hang on, hang on...

YISRAEL MEDAD:

(OVERLAPPING APPLAUSE) In other words we will not merit to hear any condemnation of terror from you?

DANIEL BARENBOIM:

But of course.

YISRAEL MEDAD:

Okay. Without any moral strings attached?

DANIEL BARENBOIM:

No.

YISRAEL MEDAD:

You oppose the use of terror...

DANIEL BARENBOIM:

Absolutely.

YISRAEL MEDAD:

...of... Thank you.

DANIEL BARENBOIM:

And I'll tell you something else. As you know perfectly well, probably better than I, many Israeli politicians have said not only in private but in public that if they had been Palestinians they would also be terrorists and they would also be using violence. I don't think I would, I think the most useful way for Palestinians today would be to have non-violent resistance. That would give them...

(APPLAUSE)

That in my view would give them not only the admiration of the world, but in the long-term would achieve for them many better results.

SUE LAWLEY:

But it just seemed to me, and correct me if I'm misunderstanding you, that the substance of that question was a suggestion, putting it bluntly, Daniel, that you might just be making music in Ramallah with people who, or the relatives of people who may have it in mind to kill Israelis.

DANIEL BARENBOIM:

When I went to Ramallah with the West Eastern Divan, er last August, I felt, and it was clearly felt by everybody there, that we were coming with a message saying look how it works in music. If we were able to create conditions in life, conditions of equality and acceptance, we would get further. And this is what I say to all the Palestinians, friend and foes alike, who say to me we cannot listen as long as the Israelis tanks and er army here, and I say to then the same thing - I expect everybody to do as I have said earlier in the lecture, sensitive talking and painful listening, because the Israeli narrative is no less painful to the Palestinians as the Palestinian narrative might be to many people in Israel.