Torah alone is not enough.
Joshua 5 -
2. At that time the Lord said to Joshua, Make for yourself sharp knives, and circumcise again the children of Israel the second time. 3. And Joshua made for himself sharp knives, and circumcised the children of Israel at the hill of the foreskins. 4. And this is the reason why Joshua did circumcise: All the people that came out of Egypt, that were males, all the men of war, had died in the desert by the way after they came out of Egypt. 5. For all the people that came out were circumcised, but all the people that were born in the wilderness by the way as they came forth out of Egypt, they had not circumcised. 6. For the children of Israel walked forty years in the wilderness, until all the people, the men of war, that came out of Egypt, were consumed, those who did not listen to the voice of the Lord, to whom the Lord had sworn that He would not show them the land, which the Lord had sworn to their forefathers that He would give us, a land that flows with milk and honey. 7. And their children, whom he raised up in their stead, them Joshua circumcised, for they had not circumcised them by the way. 8. And it was, when all the people were finished being circumcised, that they remained in their places in the camp, until they recovered. 9. And the Lord said to Joshua, This day have I rolled away the reproach of Egypt from you. And he called the name of the place Gilgal to this day. 10. And the children of Israel encamped in Gilgal, and they made the Passover sacrifice on the fourteenth day of the month at evening in the plains of Jericho.
Posts
11 comments:
I'd of wondered another 40 years.
painful operation
wandered not wondered... doh
the commandment of circumcision was given (along with a few other "little" things) before the giving of the torah. it is also incumbent upon the ishmaelites according to the torah, but their modern-day avatars do not recognize this. shhhhh.
are you really using that one line about "rolling away the reproach of egypt" to make the case that physical presence in the land of israel is necessary to being fully jewish? i'm sure rashi would be very interested to hear about this.
also, while i'm bitching here, the title of your post isn't even english. so there.
Be as catty as you want, dear.
As for circumcision, it was given to Avraham as part of the covenant to be in the Land of Israel.
So, Rashi would side with me.
See Genesis 17, 1:14 o scholar
i don't see any covenant. it's all one-sided. we've been faithfully snipping our weenies since then, meanwhile we spent most of our time in exile from the promised 'land of canaan" and only returned very recently, mostly through force of arms, at a not inconsiderable cost of "blood and treasure".
you call that a covenant?
it's a commandment, not a covenant. our father in heaven is apparently under no obligations from his side. ergo: no covenant. (countless numbers of decendants? ha! precious little of that business going on, and too much cannon fodder, not enough dining under fig trees, et. al.
am i a heretic yet?
actually the whole thing works out nicely if the arabs are considered partners in the "covenant". they certainly are "countless" and certainly had their way with the land of israel for long enough. but even i am not THAT much of a heretic. and the muslim arabs don't really practice circumcision as a commandment, rather as a "hidur"'. it's not even necessary for conversion to islam.
point in a nutshell, and rashi for sure would agree: circumcision is much more germaine to jewishness than physical presence in the land of israel. that physical presence, imho, is more of a mitzva for god than it is for us as individuals. he recently got around to taking a stab at it, but it was and is much too costly for us as a people to be considered any kind of gift, or even just regular bargain keeping. as far as im concerned, the jury is still out as to whether he's living up to HIS obligations.
if there is, in fact, a covenant, naturally. rather than view god as an indian giver, i prefer for now my view- that circumcision is a commandment, rather than a covenant. seeing it as a covenant makes god look bad. and of course i have no interest in doing anything like that, chas v'shalom. :)
Post a Comment