HOGE: Yeah. Now, there's a second -- and it is decidedly second -- sort of priority in Netanyahu's posture. He's quiet -- he's silent, anyway -- on the two-state solution; that is, he's silent on whether there really should be a Palestinian state or not.
The position he seems to have taken is, there's nobody to partner with on such a venture at the moment. The Palestinian situation is too discombobulated, between Hamas and a fading Fatah. And so he has offered up sort of an interim program of being willing to foster economic aid, security measures, political talks, with the Palestinians -- if successful, would then make it possible to think about two states, rather than one state plus these territories. Is that -- is that a reasonable posture? Is it one that's going to persuade anybody, like moderate Arab states, to come along?
ABRAMS: Well, I think he's -- many Israelis would say that you can't have a Palestinian state yet. You can't have it tomorrow morning. And the reason you can't -- the reasons you've stated: the divisions between Fatah and Hamas --
HOGE: Yeah.
ABRAMS: -- the weakness of Fatah, the inability of the Palestinian security forces today to prevent terrorism from the West Bank. But those things can be overcome, and when they are overcome, then there should be a Palestinian state.
Netanyahu has not yet, as prime minister, been willing to say that. He's not been willing to say --
HOGE: Nope, he has not.
ABRAMS: -- what should happen when they're overcome. And I cannot tell whether this is because he's saving that for President Obama and he'll give -- he'll, in a sense, give him that and then say it when he's in Washington or after returning from Washington -- or whether what -- he doesn't really -- maybe it's a matter of principle; that is, he does not believe that this is the only outcome, and that everybody should be totally committed to that outcome. He may be thinking, for example, of some kind of affiliation between the West Bank and Jordan, so that there'd be less than full statehood.
HOGE: Yeah.
ABRAMS: And he seems to be -- it's interesting, because Sharon made a flat commitment to Palestinian statehood in the road map.
HOGE: That's right.
ABRAMS: And my understanding of the Netanyahu government's position is that they accept the road map. So I think this is something that's going to have to be clarified when Netanyahu is here.
Thursday, May 14, 2009
Just Shooting The Breeze
Elliott Abrams, Senior Fellow for Middle Eastern Studies, Council on Foreign Relations talking with James F. Hoge, Editor, Foreign Affairs Magazine:
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7 comments:
Ya well, the palestinians are in many respects in the same postition as american indians were two centuries ago. Both suffered a great influx of immigrants from europe and both had to give up their territory after loosing a war with the immigrants.
Good point! Can you trace your lineage to Israel and if so when did your ancestors leave?
History is very interesting, and history can be a very prominent factor in certain national(ist) feelings. Sometimes in a more or less romanticised way, sometimes in a more or less scientific way. This is no diffirent when it comes to Jewish history and Jewish national(ist) feelings. It's good to celebrate a common history, in this case mixed with common religious and cultural traditions.
However, this does not correspond with reality.
In reality, there are other people living in the ancient 'homeland' which became so prominent in the national celebrations.
And thus, it doesn't actually matter if you are a descendent from the ancient tribes of Israel or not.
What does matter are the people whose life, family, history is in that land. And this is not an ancient history, it's reality, it's their reality.
And any form of colonisation, be it Europeans in America, Europeans in Africa or Israeli's in Palestine...is wrong.
Anon, 10:08: careful, you're sliding into antisemitism. the Jewish people were dispersed twice in 70 and 135 CE. Roman records indicate their arrival there; archeology all throughout Europe as well as cemeteries display a Jewish presence; Jews were in Czechoslovakia more than 1000 years ago. It goes on and on. They corresponded with other communities in Babylon and we have that correspondence from before 1000. They all celebrated the same holidays, kept the same customs no matter where they were. Your question would indicate to me a willingness to believe crazy theories from Khazars on.
Dont know who Khazar is. But it is interesting to know that you respond to a question of when your ancestors left Israel as accusing me of sliding into antisemitism. Actually I was offering you a chance to strenghten your argument. Guess your answer reweals that you do not know, thus you have no idea if any of your ancestors ever lived in Israel.
All I know is that my father;s family came from Zbarz outside of Tarnopol and my mother's family from Brody near Lvov. Pictures indicate they were Orthodox Jews, not Khazars.
Maybe you should then be fighting for a jewish state in the Ukraine?
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