Sunday, September 01, 2013

JewishIsrael's Waller War

JewishIsrael is going to war against Tommy Waller and his HaYovel volunteer effort.

In a blog post, depending on a secondary source - and in the past, this has proven a major weakness of JewishIsrael in that other Christian groups purposefully misinterpret what others do - it is claimed that
In a demonstration of continued collaboration with grape harvesting volunteers Tommy and Sherri Waller and their Hayovel Ministries, "Rabbi Eliezer Melamed has taken an initiative to establish a Christian Zionist Visitor Center on the Mount of Blessing in Samaria". Rabbi Melamed is actively trying to gather rabbinic backing for the initiative and has reportedly declared “If we say no to these people, we will say no to the Messiah!”
I checked that claim by the secondary source - something JI obviously did not do (are they afraid of even communicating with non-Jews?) and, as I guessed, it was in error.

There simply is no such initiative.  There is no active attempt to establish that Center.  And certainly not they way it is portrayed.

By the way, a center for Jewish-Christian understanding is not a bad idea.
In addition, quoting Rabbi Melamed as saying "we will say no to the Messiah", as if implicating him to be expressing the belief that Jesus is the Messiah, is a horrendous sin against the Rabbi.

The same sloppiness, perhaps purposefully so, is evident here:
They continue and assert that "Hayovel’s volunteers are diligently working in Samaria in order to lay the groundwork for a Christian "Restoration" in the land of Israel."

Theology is difficult to discuss but it goes without saying that we Jews who cooperate with the volunteer effort make it quite clear that such "restorative" thinking and purpose is firmly rejected.  "Building bridges" will not lead to conversions of soul-snatching.


Further, they note that "Certain rabbis, community leaders and entrepreneurs in Yehuda and Shomron readily disregard recent rabbinic guidelines and advice on how to avoid potential pitfalls when dealing with the spiritual mission and faith-based agenda of Christian groups."  Of course, they do not inform their readers that there are many "Rabbis, Community Leaders and entrepeneurs" who disagree with the outlook of those JI supports.

I disagree that "continued evangelical political, humanitarian and financial support for the state of Israel dwarfs or erases the theological, spiritual or physical costs..." for Jews.  We are in our Land and we are strong in our beliefs and Judaism is being proven more correct than ever.  It is our prophetic word that is being justified.  The "coming" of non-Jews to assist us in our labors is the proof that the Bible is true, as in I Kings 8 -

41 Moreover concerning the stranger that is not of Thy people Israel, when he shall come out of a far country for Thy name's sake-- 42 for they shall hear of Thy great name, and of Thy mighty hand, and of Thine outstretched arm--when he shall come and pray toward this house; 43 hear Thou in heaven Thy dwelling-place, and do according to all that the stranger calleth to Thee for; that all the peoples of the earth may know Thy name, to fear Thee, as doth Thy people Israel, and that they may know that Thy name is called upon this house which I have built.

That is the vision we should be striving to achieve.  We should make it clear that there is no need for a belief in Jesus for Biblical prophecy to be realized.  This cooperation with Christians is a two-way street.  We need not be suffering an inferiority complex as if we cannot make demands or such.

The "fervor" of Christian volunteers does not always translate into concrete support of missionary activity which pose a direct challenge to Israel's Jewish character.    In fact, there are examples of the other direction occuring.

I do not at all wish to minimize any threats from Christain "aliyah" or messianic Jewish groups or missionary attempts.  But those have always been present, in the Diaspora as well as in the Land of Israel.  That should not be confused with the quite necessary need to deal with "the coming of the non-Jew" phenomenon that we, as Jews, must come to terms with, define and establish guidelines.  That is our challenge.
I and friends duly consider the content of JI but, as for myself, there is no need to preach to me to suggest I


may want to sober up and use a little wisdom..... lest [I] pour [my] heritage down the drain.

Moreover, I suggest it is time that JI and supporters review their approach and consider the potential consequences of their actions.

And here is an example:




This poster appeared at several traffic junctions out here in Yesha.

The language is unrestrained and bordering on the criminal in that anyone who understands the subtext of the Hebrew terminology knows that the message is threatening.  If there are Rabbis behind this, they should be careful.  A charge of incitement could be made.

"Christians laying in ambush to murder souls in the vineyards".

"Hundreds of missionaries, organized and dangerous, have infiltrated already".

"May they be obliterated".

"You shall burn the evil from amidst you".

"Blessed by he who distances the danger from us."

"Impure hands".

Signed: "The Committee to Save the Children for Missionary Work".

This is dangerous and those who are directly - and indirectly - responsible need be called to order.

^

34 comments:

David Rubin - Shiloh said...

If they are behind this campaign of hatred, perhaps it's time that the directors of the Jewish Israel website publicize their own names, or the names of the people who produced this poster. It's easy to hide behind the pretentious name "Jewish Israel", while perhaps slandering and even engaging in implied threats of violence against a righteous Gentile and stirring up hatred. Yes, we need to be cautious, but as far as I can see in the five years that I have known him, Tommy Waller has not attempted to proselytize Christian belief to even one Israeli. Can the anonymous slanderers provide a few concrete first-hand instances?

Jewish Israel said...

Mr. Rubin,

JewishIsrael has no idea who produced the posters. We became aware of them the same way as you did.

We have already commented about the posters earlier today here.

In addition to your first false accusation above, we provide you with this list of JewishIsrael's board members. This list has been public for years.

I suggest you read our talkback I linked to above to understand that we never said that Waller or anyone in their group have explicitly missionized a Jew in Yehuda and Shomron.

What you can't see is the forest for the trees. I suggest that you folks start dealing with the major mess you are creating.

Avraham Leibler
Administrative Director
JewishIsrael.com

Jewish Israel said...

As to Mr. Meidad's piece here, you seem to be picking up classic missionary tactics of proclaiming proof texts with complete disregard of your source's context.

While you quote verbatim the first paragraph of our recent article, "At what price will a “Christian Zionist Visitor Center” be established in Har Bracha?", you conveniently mislead your readers here by not revealing to them the immediate paragraph which follows:

"The above news was part of the August 2013 Elijah Prayer Army Alert produced by Lars Enarson, an end-times preacher and close associate and supporter of Tommy and Sherri Waller."

We never said that Rav Melamed himself proclaimed these statements and we clearly pointed out who was stating them.

Similar to Mr. Rubin above, you seem incapable of letting the penny drop.

We have responded to your comments specifically on this most recent talkback of ours.

Avraham Leibler
Administrative Director
JewishIsrael.com

ellen said...

Jewishisrael immediately and publicly disassociated our organization from those posters. You can see our response at HaKol Hayehudi.

Lars Enarson, the source of that quote actively partners with the Waller family and Hayovel. In fact Hayovel and Enarson ran an event together last month featuring at least one missionary who targets Jews in Israel (BTW the missionary's daughters volunteer with Hayovel). Also Enarson's messianic son-in-law represented Hayovel and shared the podium last March with an organization directed by somebody that you yourself described as "an unsavorable character".

One would think that you would get the point that this issue is not about whether or not Rabbi Melamed approved of that center but that Enarson said that he did, and that Enarson and those like him are using Rav Melamed's support and friendship to advance their agenda in every way possible way.

Over the last two years Jewishisrael has been in contact with those closest with Rav Melamed and have repeatedly tried to arrange a meeting with him. I have met, albeit briefly, with Tommy Waller.

Why don't you call Enarson and the Hayovel team to order on this? Or perhaps trying to control the zeal of millions of fundamentalist Christians and the statements of their leadership is something Jewish leadership in the Shomron should take into account before they play with strange fire. This is your mess. You should clean it up

David Rubin, you are making some pretty heavy and irresponsible accusations.

Ellen Horowitz
Content and Research Director
Jewishisrael.com

YMedad said...

Avraham and Ellen - on these issues, until I get a specific and public apology for your blog that proclaimed "I Found Jesus", your words on this topic are worthless, empty, valueless, untrustworthy and suspect. Your accusions over the years have been sometimes wild, unsubstantiated, "guilt-by-association" and otherwise, sometimes, just plain silly. But you do make some good hits at times and we all thank you for revealing those who are wrong and ill-intended. On the other hand, in cases, you are underming the security of the state of the Jews, its diplomatic standing and otherwise seem to satisfy are oreintation that is incapable of coming to terms with the vision of "the stranger that comes". In addition, since I have met with outstabnding and leading Rabbis on this issue and have received confirmation for efforts to seek ways of cooperation and tolerance, I have no problems championing this cause.

David Rubin - Shiloh said...

I'm happy that Ellen and Avraham didn't produce the posters, although they certainly seem at least partially responsible for an atmosphere of incitement against those Jews who have spoken positively of and/or have helped to connect our Jewish farmers in Samaria with the Christian volunteers. The Christian volunteers are happy to do the seasonal work that most Jews are not willing to do and that is so essential in agriculture. Would Ellen Horowitz and Avraham Liebler, in their dogmatic fervor, prefer to have the sons of Ishmael working and "playing" in the vineyards of Samaria? Would they persist in their passionate, undifferentiated paranoia after a few more terrorist attacks on our communities?

Ariel ben Yochanan said...

B"H - The status of a Jew who takes the part of a xtian against another Jew is automatically in doubt.

YMedad said...

that Ariel is a ridiculous line of reasoning. If the Halacha permits you do do something that takes into consideration various elements of relations with non-Jews, how is that suspect?

Ariel ben Yochanan said...

B"H - There is no halacha that permits anything that goes on in Bracha: Only Mr. Melamed's reformed Torah.

Anonymous said...

Do you people believe at all in Hashem or the Torah? These are the facts. Wallers and volunteers are not righteous gentiles as defined by halachah. Even according to Rabbi Melamed they practice a form of idolatry. The halachah not only says they shouldn't be allowed in the land of Yisrael but we should show them no favor. At a time when the fate of the Shomron is being decided not only in Washington but in shamayim do you really want to play a game of semantics and technicalities? So I would think twice about inviting them into your yishuvim and your homes. Jews base their actions on halachah not prophecy. It wouldn't be the first time Hashem removed Jews from the land because of idolatry. Even King Shlomo was led astray by bonding with idolators and I don't think even you are arrogant enough to think you are wiser than he.

YMedad said...

to Ariel - now you being either silly, stupid or plain cantankerous.

to Anon. - fanatic irrationalists always amaze me but they don't mesmerize me.

Geula Girl said...

Medad, what Halacha permits you do do something that takes into consideration various elements of relations with non-Jews? Source please?

ellen said...

David,

My sons and scores of their friends are happily harvesting and working the land in the Golan as I write this. We interviewed several farmers and posted a number of other alternatives which we published in in our 2011 report:
http://jewishisrael.ning.com/profiles/blogs/the-waller-family-making

Thai workers have an excellent reputation here.

When asked about Christian labor, we received replies such as, "they may want a piece of who we are and what we have.” and that "use of pious Christian laborers could be problematic because, like Arabs, they claim an attachment to the land."

We also asked Rabbi Sholom Aronson, the Kashrut supervisor of the Golan Heights Winery (he is also in charge of the tourist center for the winery), about the use of machinery to harvest grapes.

Rabbi Aronson said that the overwhelming majority of the high quality, award winning wines produced in the Golan are made from grapes that were picked mechanically.

He acknowledged that certain exclusive boutique wineries, producing premium wines or champagnes, may still rely on hand-picked grapes, because the machinery can bruise the clusters.

He said that the older vineyards in the Shomron require handpicking because, in order for mechanization to work, the vineyards have to be preplanned for mechanization. However, it was his understanding that the newer vineyards in the Shomron have all been planned for mechanized harvesting.

Overall, Rabbi Aronson said the Golan vintners were pleased with the mechanization process and that it seemed to be the future, even for finest of wines.

So it appears that there are indeed very viable alternatives to dependency on fervent Christian fundamentalist labor. Those Jewish farmers who choose to throw caution to the wind and continue their relationship with the Waller family should lay down the law and some ground rules.

From day 1 Jewishisrael has promoted and approved of a moral and responsible relationship with Christian supporters, yet not a wanton and reckless one like that which is currently being pursued by Shomron leadership.

YMedad said...

GG:-

One.

למשל: מ"חבל נחלתו" -
"ג. בערכין (ו ע"א) נאמר: "תנא חדא: עובד כוכבים שהתנדב נדבה לבדק הבית – מקבלים הימנו, ותניא אידך: אין מקבלין! א"ר אילא א"ר יוחנן, לא קשיא: הא בתחילה, הא בסוף, דאמר ר' אסי אמר רבי יוחנן: בתחילה – אפילו מים ומלח אין מקבלין מהם, בסוף – דבר המסויים אין מקבלין, דבר שאינו מסויים מקבלין. היכי דמי דבר המסויים? אמר רב יוסף: כגון אמה כליא עורב". (בבבלי הובאה רק דעת ר' יוחנן ובירושלמי אף דעת ר"ל עי' להלן), ורב יוסף מפרש שדבר מסוים הוא חלק ברור מהבנין. והגמרא דנה בכך.

ומפרש רש"י:

"בתחילה – בתחילת הבנין אין מקבלין דשמא לרפיון ידים מתכוונין.

"לבסוף – לחזק את בדק דאין לומר רפיון ידים מקבלין, ל"א בתחילה כשלא היתה אימתן של עובדי כוכבים עליהן אין מקבלין אבל לבסוף מקבלין משום אימה. וראשון עיקר, וזה אינו טעם דהא כל ימי בית שני היתה אימת העובדי כוכבים עליהן ובתחילתו יותר מסופו. וא"ת האי בתחילה נמי אמקדש ראשון קאמר א"כ מאי מותיב ליה לקמן מואגרת אל אסף וגו' דהיינו במקדש שני.

"דבר המסויים – שנראה בעין אין מקבלין מהם דגנאי הוא ועוד שמתפארים בו".

עולה שלבדק הבית מותר לקבל לאחר הבניה לשם תיקונים וגם אז לא דבר מסויים כגון חלק מהבניין אלא ממון או חומרי בניה שמעבדים אותם ומוסיפים לבניין."

Anonymous said...

I have to say I am very disappointed in Mr. Meidad, Mr. Rubin, Mr. HaIvri and Moshe and Leah Goldsmith... Well, the list is just too long.

I may be the only one commenting here who started life as a goy and then became a kosher Jew. I've been where Tommy Waller and his family are. And I thank God!! that the Jews I met on my way to Judaism were straight and honest with me and did not see me and my path of faith as something to be exploited for their own personal financial gain.

Every time I see a response to this subject from Mr. Meidad or Mr. HaIvri, they never address any of the issues that have been raised. Instead, they throw out derogatory statements like so much chaff to deflect attention from their own misdeeds and to bring fire on their detractors.

You all should be ashamed of yourselves!! You are using these poor misguided souls like slave labor, knowing the entire time that they have certain expectations that you know for a fact have no chance of fulfillment and yet that does not seem to bother you at all.

Have any of you had the human decency to try to set them straight on their flawed theology? Or is "being a light to the nations" just a nice little phrase to throw out and hook the goyim and reel them in for servitude to you and your friends? For shame! For shame!!

Such a chillul Hashem!! Out of love for God and the nation of Israel they come and serve and you cynically withhold the truth from them because God knows, if they ever discover the truth, they will no longer serve you like so much slave labor, working inhuman hours, backbreaking work.

Think on this and remember this as you stand before your Maker for judgment in three days time.

YMedad said...

Dear Anon 3:53:

The short answer is yes but not by prosyletizing. If I engage in theological discussions, there would probably be some fanatic who would say I'm engaged in ecumenism.

Anonymous said...

That's a very unsatisfactory answer. I hope you have a better one prepared before Judgment Day.

Anon #2 - (not to be confused with the first anon.)

Yekutiel Ben Yakov said...

The fact remains that these "righteous goyim" on their video admission state that their agenda is to work with the Jews in the field sand to share with them Yeshu. If you wish to belive that they changed their faith or strategy, why would you give them the benifit of the doubt? Would you give an Arab terrorist who says his agenda is to work with Jews and then to kill them the benifit of the doubt, if they promised to stop believing and practicing their beliefs? Regardless, why would you want hundreds of these goyim as beautifu las they and their daughters might be, roaming around in your yishuvim and dangling their 20 FT high crosses on your hilltops? If i wanted that i could og back to New York. I dont want my children mingling with hundreds of goyim in my backyard, with all due respect to them and their supporters who are not objective because they benifit from them. This whole discussion is so obscene and absurd that it is hard to believe that Jews would be fighting to settle these goyim in their Yeshuvim. G-d have mercy on us. How true the words of teh Torah that bribery shall blind the the eyes of the wise, and cause distortion in the words of the righteous. Rabbi Melamed - be a man and repent before Bracha. I dont care how wise you are, your minority opinion is anthema to basic Judaism.

YMedad said...

that video is almost a decade old.

Tommy has recanted. He admits he spoke from ignorance. He has learned what he didn't know and sincerely regrets his misunderstandings.

as for crosses, they don't even wear them. lack of knowledge on your part is amazing.

Anonymous said...

Tommy renounced Yeshu!? How did it happen!?

Anon #2

Devash said...

No, they don't wear crosses. They wear tzitzit. Anyone passing them on the street in Jerusalem might think they are Jews, which is more problematic, for reasons that are obvious to reasonable people.

I'm wondering now if you've always been given to obfuscation with clever wordplay or if it is something you've picked up from your new friends.

Allow me to add the unspoken subtext for the uninitiated:

Tommy has recanted.
I don't believe in Jesus anymore (cuz his name is Yeshua, wink-wink)

He admits he spoke from ignorance.
I didn't know the Jews would get upset about it.

He has learned what he didn't know and sincerely regrets his misunderstandings.
I won't make that mistake again. I'll be even more secretive about my real motives and agenda from now on.

And yes, they really are that devious.

Do I have proof? If this leopard had really changed his spots, he would not still be consorting with messianic (antisemite-in-the-classic-xian-way) Daniel Botkin.

If you don't believe me, ask Botkin's daughters. They're here in Israel right now, volunteering with HaYovel.

[Quoting Daniel Botkin: "JEWISH PEOPLE AND THE TWO-HOUSE TEACHING" I do not have as much contact with Jewish people now as I did in the past
when I lived in Israel and New York, so I am not sure about the best way, if any, to
approach the subject when speaking to Jews. We should be aware of the fact that
Orthodox Jews do expect Mashiach (Messiah) to regather the twelve tribes.
Perhaps it could be pointed out to them that the descendants of the tribes are
indeed being regathered from among the Gentile nations as they come to Yeshua
and into the Messianic Community. Centuries ago, when virtually all Gentile
Christians just lived a typical Catholic or Protestant lifestyle, the suggestion would
not have been so feasible. But now that so many Gentile Christians are embracing the
Torah, honoring the true Sabbath, and celebrating the Biblical Feasts, the idea
may not seem too far-fetched for Orthodox Jews to consider it. (Some already do
believe it, by the way.) And if they are persuaded that many of these "Messianic
Gentiles" are really descendants of the ten northern tribes and are awakening to their Israelite identity because of their faith in Yeshua of Nazareth, then they might also be persuaded to consider His Messianic claims more seriously than they did in the past, when they viewed Christianity as just another pagan religion.


This is who Tommy Waller asked to be guest speaker at his 2013 Family Week.]

YMedad said...

Devash, thanks for erasing that reference to Erev-Rav (here) although from your blogging, I see you're a messianist yourself and Nir is pretty close to that other religion enough to seem to make you an expert.

And I've always been clever.

In any case, I am sufficiently impressed that the HaYovel group does not engage in proselytizing here. As they are Christians and not all of them are of the Waller in-circle, if they do so outside of Israel, I wouldn't be upset and I would combat that. That's what Christians do.

As for obfuscation, you probably have some awards too.

I interpret matters so: in the period of the redemptive process developing right now, the non-Jew will seek to come and he will assist us. It might even be that the next stage will be the uniting of mankind to believe in God as we Jews do. No matter, until that time, we should expect them to come, we should be prepared, we should have clear guidelines and they should know them and act accordingly.

There are, yes, other groups, That is another story.

Ariel ben Yochanan said...

B"H - It doesn't matter Medad what the xtians do. What matters is what they are. One. Two, your going after and personally offending the Jews you don't agree with tells a lot about YOU, very little if nothing about their supposedly erroneous understandings. Three, the thesis according to which we are in a "phase" of redemption is problematic, not only because you say so, but in as much as a) not "we", the Jews are always in a "stage" of redemption and b) it is hugely subjective (and exquisitely Kookist) to think so. As far as the erev rav issue is concerned, your bringing up the "uniting of humanity" gives your game away Medad. Please don't make the mistake to think I'm talking to you Medad, I have only disdain for you and I wouldn't talk to you even if you paid me with gold of your weight: I'm talking to the good people who might come to your blog by error, in their search for truth

YMedad said...

O Ariel.

Thank you for clarifying yourself.

Have a good year.

Ariel ben Yochanan said...

B"H - On a second thought, I would talk to you if you paid me with gold of your weight.

Anonymous said...

Many of the Hayovel volunteers, including staff member Aaron Murphy, believe that they are "co-heirs" with the Jews to the inheritance of the land of Israel. This is based on the New Testament verses "Galatians 3:27-29
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise."
Their work here is in preparation for their future aliyah. They call themselves Israelites and believe there will be a mass exodus of christians from the nations to Israel and they have decided to help get that started. They believe the Jews are caretakers of their part of Israel (the Shomron) until they arrive. You may be able to deny Tommy believes or supports this but that is only because every time anyone finds evidence to this on the internet he immediately removes it.

Geula Girl said...

Tommy Waller screens his volunteers carefully. They must offer up to 5 references that must be former volunteers and they have to have a phone interview to make sure they "fit" the Hayovel ideal. So if there are missionaries among the volunteers, which there are, then Waller knows it. Brayden Waller and his wife just participated in the inauguration of Lars Enarson's missionary training compound "City on the Hill" in Sweden. These missionary trainees are being trained to convert Jews and are required to volunteer with Hayovel for part of their training. This is all on the internet for anyone who cared to google.

Anita Tucker said...

I have been on the board of Jewish Israel for several years as was clearly indicated onthe J.I. site. Before that I lived in Gush Katif for 30 yrs.During the several years of terror and during the struggle for saving Gush Katif Yisrael Meidad ,David Haivri and many of the leadership of Judea and Samaria were in the forefront of exposing the true facts as these were was intentionally hidden from the public .
Then they understood clearly that only when the facts are known can a person make a valued decision!

Jewish Israel is an organization that researches the Christian's sites and sources,forums etc where they speak and write to each other . . Each person can read the articles Christians wrote, can see the clips in which Christians speak to other Christians and occasionally some of the people of Judea and Samaria as they appear and speak before christian groups.
Each and every person then as now who reads these facts has the choice of what to do with the sourced information and how to react to these facts.
Some prefer to be ostriches and others prefer to do take these facts seriously and act accordingly.

Yisrael,why now is it suddenly a crime to bring facts to the awareness of the public?? . It is your privilege to watch or not watch these clips to read them and act or not act to protect the integrity of our Judaism and the integrity of our Jewish Homeland our promised Land.
One can read and see the facts brought on the Jewish Israel site and meet with us to see much more of the vast amount of information that we have gathered - or not do so . One can see them and ignore them or one can see them and decide to no longer empower those christian groups and individuals whose motivations are very problematic,
If you choose to read and see these facts the one thing that makes no sense at all is to -attack those who researched and made the facts available.
Strangely enough this is exactly what you have been doing Yisrael. .
Speak up against those that empower Christians whose goals are to undermine your faith - or dont do so! as you choose-- but stop attacking those that expose the facts because the facts annoy you !

YMedad said...

a) where there are Christians who seek to missionize, I am at one with every Jewish group;

b) it is not my opinion that HaYovel presents such a danger;

c) if I discover direct activity, it will be dealt with as it should and stopped;

d) my activity may prevent what you and the other Gush Katif people went through by increasing the allies for Yesha.

e) I am not attacking anyone, but defending myself against weird, biased, unproven and frankly, hysterical reactions.

Devash said...

"... I see you're a messianist yourself."

I am "messianist" in the classic Rambam tradition... "I believe with perfect faith in the coming of the Messiah. However long it takes, I will await His coming every day."

No obfuscation here:

"I've always been clever."

"I am sufficiently impressed...."

"I interpret matters so...."

Richard Kantor said...

I agree with your article. I have met Tommy Waller, a Nashville boy, and I find that their work here is for our benefit. I would only wish that the real anti Semites of the world would wake up and follow Tommy Waller's example.

Ariel ben Yochanan said...

B"H - You see Richard, even if Waller was "good for us", it wouldn't matter. Why? Because Judaism is about the sovereignty of Hashem, not of the Jews. See this. However, even this narrative is a lie, as he is anything but good for us: He steals hundreds of jobs from our Jewish youths in an already depressed area and creates other serious damage too on his false way to bring in the second coming of his man-god idol.

YMedad said...

ABY - you're clutching.

Okay, you don't like Christians. We got that. And heaven forbid we ask them to turn on a light for us or other "shabbox-goy" stuff. And who needs non-Jews for Pesach either?

Ariel ben Yochanan said...

B"H - Maybe it is difficult to grasp, but I am not the subject matter here. The hundreds of xtians bought in to undercut our youths on their own job market is the problem and Shabbat goyim you bring up as an example are irrelevant as they do tasks and jobs we cannot do. Working the land, harvesting grapes on our farms here in Judea and Samaria on the other hand is the natural jobs source for our people and those who bring in foreigners to work for free are destroying our local job market and of course Mesika, our Governor and his cronies will be held responsible for this, comes election day. If you do the maths, 25 shekels per hour times 8 hrs per day times 25 working days a month times 3 months times 500 xtian slaves, that's a 7.5 million shekels loss only in direct wages. Add the second level losses to local businesses, the pizzas, beers, cokes and yes, baby-diapers not bought and we are easily at the 10 million loss mark and more for your glorious season! 10 million and you are worried about my character?! Com'on Medad, I'm sure you can do better than that!