Here is an arty photograph of mine of Beck speaking:
He was powerful, spoke with passion in defence of Israel and noting the immorality in diplomatic affairs and the evil amongst its enemies. But there was no Islam-trashing. Here's his prepared remarks text. David Brog even "blessed" the "Palestinian people". Rami Levy received a medal for his charity and his efforts for creating coexistence opportunities between Jews and Arabs.
There was no missionary language. I met a Chabadnik from the UK who came specially. Many religious Jews were in the audience there:
But it seems Ben Hartman of the JPost felt these persons below deserved their own story and not just a paragraph or two for they are of Peace Now, after contributing quite a negative piece to The Atlantic blog:
It seems certain journalists just can't keep it professional but rather personal.
And here are the "Solidarity with Palestine" activists in their T-shirts who also made noise:
And least Mike Evans tried to help out with balance.
Eli Pollak and I did, too.
Barry Rubin's observations.
Those of Caroline Glick.
And I missed this:
A pre-show featured scenes from viewing parties all over the world, and at one point, it cut to South Carolina state Rep. Alan Clemmons, who recently succeeded in passing a state resolution claiming that because God deeded Israel to the Jews, there is no occupation of the West Bank.
Clemmons was fulsome in his praise for Jews who have taken up residence on territory that Israel captured from Jordan in 1967. “We look at those that are the settlers in Judea and Samaria, and we see our American pioneers of years past,” he said. “They are the heroes of that country.” The audience in Jerusalem, a mix of American Christians and Jewish Israelis, many of them conservative or orthodox, burst into applause.
And I left this comment there:
In writing " It’s a powerful message, this offer of salvation through politics. It also makes negotiation impossible. And that’s precisely the point", can we assume that Ms. Goldberg realizes that the point also could be that since "Palestinianism" was led by a Mufti who went over to Hitler as early as 1933 and broadcast from Berlin during WW II, that Hamas is the most powerful group on the ground not only in Gaza (from whence the recent rockts are coming) but most probably in Judea and Samaria and that's the reason this latest round of reconciliation and elections is on hold and that even the PA media is engaged in vile denial of Jewish nationalism and Jewish religious history here in the Land of Israel - and I could go on with examples - that negotiations with the Arabs not only has been worthless for 90 years but will continue to be so and that any resolution, from there point of view, which does not cancel out Israel as the Jewish state is a non-starter? And if she does, how angry is her writing on those subjects in comparision to her criticism of Beck?
Of course, relatively speaking, all Beck is trying to do is counter this Arab aspect and a standoff on this might not be too bad an idea.
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10 comments:
Your comment about Moshe says more about you than about him.
It's odd that you don't have a problem that Beck is in bed up to his eyeballs with Hagee, considering Hagee is 100% a proselytizer of Jews in a huge way.
Since you are a journalist, you obviously know what Hagee does out of his John Hagee Ministries.
You must also know about his support for Daystar TV, which is in over 500,000 homes in Israel 24/7.
You must also know that Daystar TV in Israel's goal is to convert Jews to J.
It's very odd that you condemn a man who wishes to be the leader of a nation who actually cares about those most vulnerable to being converted and lost forever to our people.
And your talk about the geo political situation is right in line with Ariel Sharon, who said that "he has to do the Disengagement or else the US will make us do something worse".
This thinking only enables the next Sharon, and that is Bibi, who is certainly using your ideology to destroy Israel.
Not to mention, I thought that we're not supposed to put our faith in any Kings or Princes, so I'm not sure why you support this type of thinking.
And from a practical viewpoint, even if you wanted to put your faith in the US, the US has not been a friend of Israel - ever. It only provides lip service and financial aid which actually costs Israel money to accept. It also is constantly pushing Israel to destroy itself by dividing itself and creating an enemy cancer state in its biblical heartland, which the US and we know that this would make Israel militarily indefensible.
CUFI's Brog says up front - and in his book - that they avoid pushing their ideology in order to gain influence with the Israeli government. This means that they support the Israeli government - whatever it does - in order to build their x-tian centers in Israel and convert Jews to their side. They do this at the expense of fighting to keep the Land of Israel under Israeli sovereignty.
But then again, from the tone of your comment, you must know all of this and not care about it.
I hope I have not been too strong in my comment, but I was just very upset at your comment, which I felt to be very unfair and wrong.
Dear Rob:
er, who is Moshe?
Didn't you make a comment on JPost's website putting down Moshe Feiglin today?
If not you, it was someone with your name.
Ah, that. But of course it says a lot about me than him. Moshe Feiglin is a failure, politically. he is milking money that could be put to better use. He is unelectable. He is the exact opposite of a leader. Nice guy and smart and I respect him. But in the political field, sorry. And to think he gets thousands of dollars to keep up a "campaign" that my friend Shevach Stern has done much better with.
But, hey, that's life.
You are stating a valid opinion about his electoral chances. You are entitled to your opinion and only the future will prove if you are right.
However, that is not what you condemned him for, and you didn't answer any of my points.
I can only assume that you don't want to address them.
a) if the future lasts as long as Feiglin's past, that really would be a shame for all that money not going to better purposes. How long has Feiglin been running for election?
b) your points? oh, on Beck, et al.
Christians will try to missionize. it's their DNA. Our responsibility is to 1) tell them not to; 2) educate our younger generation; 3) make sure that only knowledgeable people work in the field; 4) set up rules and act on them;
I do realize that there are efforts. I was first approached in the Catskills when I was 17 by a preacher so I am not unaware of ignoring. But I approach the issue less than I would if I was a Rabbi, which I am not, and more as a proud nationalist Jew who knows it is the duty of "בני נכר" to serve the state of Israel. (Isaish 60;10) and that is the task of a sovereign Jewish state.
Nice photo.
Winkie, I note that you linked to Mike Evan's column. A personality like Evans illustrates just how complex the Israel- Evangelical relationship is.
Mike Evans, a protege of Pat Robertson, gained notoriety as a an active Jews for Jesus missionary. TIME magazine covered him in 1977 in the article "Yeshua is Messiah".
In the past Rabbi Stewart Weiss debated him. He and his fellow proselytizers were challenged by the JCRC (in the days when Malcolm Hoenlein was actively involved in fighting counter-missionaries).
More recently, He's used the podium at Ariel University to accuse the Israeli media of being biased against messianic missionaries in Israel.
And, of course, at Beck's Caesaria event he gave testimony of how as a Jewish boy he found christ.
So it's so not so easy, as you say to "go after the missionaries" and leave the pro-Israel evangelicals alone. We have a real problem.
Whoops
Correction to above:
Malcolm Hoenlein was actively involved in fighting missionaries via JCRC (not counter-missionaries.
Another thought. Beck rightfully venerates Righteous Gentiles and he may have brought Mike Evans along because of his work on behalf of the Corrie Ten Boom Museum, BUT
Corrie Ten Boom and her family , in addition to risking their lives to save hundreds of physical Jewish lives in the Holocaust, also incessantly preached that Jews were "completed" when they became Christian, and reassured condemned and terrified Jews in the camps that they would become “even more Jewish” if they accepted Jesus.
After the war Corrie continued as an enthusiastic missionary, which included “deathbed evangelizing”. Elderly and terminally ill Jews apprently got her message.
This type of activity finds justification in evangelical eyes, because it’s purportedly motivated by “love” for the Jewish people, rather than “hate”.
In Jewish eyes, it is and remains an unacceptable, despicable, and inhumane form of religious persecution.
Corrie Ten Boom and her family are appropriately deemed “Righteous Gentiles” by the State of Israel and have a tree in Yad Vashem- after all they saved many Jewish lives. At the dedication ceremony – on Israeli soil - Corrie used the opportunity to “witness”, in a big way, about her “Jewish” lord and savior.
And that’s why Evangelical Christians will have to understand that when it comes to missionary icons like Corrie Ten Boom, there remains a very warm spot in the hearts of Jews, as well as a cold and bitter one. As long as evangelizing remains in the equation, the reception on our end will remain lukewarm at best – regardless of what type of aid and assistance we Jews are receiving.
Okay, short but to the point:
a) I do not ignore efforts, open and subterfuge, by Christians to missionize and proselytize.
b) I do believe it is encumbent that Jews be acquainted of the problem and taught what they need to know.
c) However, that does not exclude political, diplomatic, financial cooperation in a blanket sense.
d) i think the current situation, which also means the existing state of Israel, has altered the equation (or disequation) that existed for centuries. in fact, I am going to review Rav Soloveitchik's writings, on which you rely, to better understand that especially on the background of Vatican II. can you send me the full text of that '64 letter?
e) and to repeat: the situation Israel and its Jews face, along with many others, behooves cooperation. the task is not how to avoid it but how to accomplish it with the best results possible for all.
Given tha above, wild guilt-by-association claims, references to past activities but ignoring current ones, blanket opprobium doesn't become the demands of the hour.
e) and to repeat: the situation Israel and its Jews face, along with many others, behooves cooperation. the task is not how to avoid it but how to accomplish it with the best results possible for all.
Shows how desperate you people are. You ally yourselves with fundies who expect you all to die when Jesus turns up. You don't believe in Jesus in Shiloh, do you ?
Did you ask Hagee why the Shoah happened?
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