"As the war in Gaza raged, Israel Defense Forces reservists apparently thought anything was permissible: It was possible, maybe even necessary, to kill innocents, in the West Bank, too. Under cover of war, they thought, they could also kill a handcuffed Palestinian." and the whole story here
I read that the incident is under investigation and I hope that justice will be done. I do not support illegal extra-judicial activities. I would hope that the Pals. learn from our mistakes.
IDF is already saying that he was trying to steal their weapon that is why they killed him, even though he was handcuffed with his hands in the back and sitting. And there were no witnesses. Let's see if justice will be done.
Let's not fool anyone. If anybody is going to be punished in this story I am ready to eat my hat (and I don't mean some ridiculous punishment like suspended a 2-week sentence, but what you'd expect to be an appropriate punishment for murder.) In the recent years IDF made it pretty clear that the Palestinians can be murdered with virtual impunity. It is a bit less so in the case of "non-Arabs" and the only serious punishment doled out was in the case of the British photographer Thom Hurndall whose family led a long a protracted struggle with support of the UK government to bring justice to his killer. In that case Israel finally gave up, and the fact that the soldier who killed Hurndall was a Bedouin did hurt. In another story involving a dead Brit IDF is now paying 1.5 million pounds to his family in an out-of-court settlement. So, if the killing involves a non-Arab who has a family or government to fight for justice, then there is a slim chance. For Palestinians there is none. Yisrael may say whatever he wants, he won't be able to bring even one (1) case where a soldier (or a settler for that matter) was severely punished for murdering a Palestinian. If Yisrael cared about justice, he'd fight to expose these cases, because in the end a corrupt justice system has an effect of a boomerang - it comes back to haunt you (not to mention that the same soldiers who think they can kill human beings with impunity later return to the society and rape, murder and abuse their fellow citizens.) For example, Yisrael will complain about Israeli police treating some settlers badly, but forgets that the same police is raised in the culture where it murders unarmed Palestinian and pro-Palestinian protesters almost as a matter of policy. So, what goes around comes around. You reap what you sow.
"Sorry but you're oinking too loud" and then "you're barking". And then you screaming about Arabs calling Jews pigs and dogs?
Peter, agree one hundred percent. Israel has been able to get away with more serious crimes than that. It's just too depressing to see this kind of injustice taking place and not able to do anything about it. But at the end, what goes around comes around. Not necessary in the same way. Sooner or later. Universal law.
"Peter, you're barking up the wrong tree on the question of discrimination but that's okay."
How so? Not sure what you mean by "discrimination" in this context, but if it is the deliberate failure of Israel to pursue justice, I'd expect from you... well, if not righting about this on your blog then at the very least a nice word about, say, B'Tselem or Gideon Levy, who are among the few righteous in Sodom exposing these cases. Come on, Yisrael, put your money where your mouth is. (Galia, I am OK with Yisrael using oinking and barking and more; from knowing him a little bit, he is a good natured fellow and has a knack for teasing sense of humor and use of idioms. Fine by me.)
No comment from Yisrael yet... Hm, are you going to prove you are not all empty talk? Some responsibility for what you say? Here is a chance for you. Comment on this piece on settler violence from an eye-witness. Please, mind you, don't be like a couple of idiots in the comments who claim the piece is biased since it doesn't mention settler suffering as well (as it clearly does - how moronic can one be to leave such a comment!?) or because it doesn't mention Hamas or Nebuchadnezzar or Haman or whatever other such nonsense. Be on the point.
"He kept saying I was lying, and that I wanted to steal from the settlement. He said that if I told him the truth, he would let me go." Sounds familiar.
Let's see, there's a question there? I have to play a game and say a good word about B'tselem and Gideon Levy? You're kidding, right?
I spent several hours with Gideon at the Limmud Conference at Nottingham University three years ago and while it was apleasant conversation, with the participation of Rachel Elior, we didn't get anywhere. As for B'tselem, I was there at the beginning with all the Meretz people who founded it who I knew from the Knesset. I disagree that they are concerned with human rights, as they are concerned 98.5% with Arab rights only.
I am not sure it constitutes "good words", but, what the heck, Yisrael had "pleasant" and "Gideon" in the same sentence, that must be already progress. As to your tiring point about human rights of the Jews, you still ignore the fact that while there is no lack of protection for such, there is a dire need to protect human rights of the Palestinians and B'Tselem and Gideon are of the few that try to do so (especially since the occupying power reneged on this responsibility long time ago.)
American born, my wife and I moved to Israel in 1970. We have lived at Shiloh together with our family since 1981. I was in the Betar youth movement in the US and UK. I have worked as a political aide to Members of Knesset and a Minister during 1981-1994, lectured at the Academy for National Studies 1977-1994, was director of Israel's Media Watch 1995-2000 and currently, I work at the Menachem Begin Heritage Center in Jerusalem. I was a guest media columnist on media affairs for The Jerusalem Post, op-ed contributor to various journals and for six years had a weekly media show on Arutz 7 radio. I serve as an unofficial spokesperson for the Jewish Communities in Judea & Samaria.
14 comments:
Here is Isr. terror
"As the war in Gaza raged, Israel Defense Forces reservists apparently thought anything was permissible: It was possible, maybe even necessary, to kill innocents, in the West Bank, too. Under cover of war, they thought, they could also kill a handcuffed Palestinian."
and the whole story here
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1067254.html
I read that the incident is under investigation and I hope that justice will be done. I do not support illegal extra-judicial activities. I would hope that the Pals. learn from our mistakes.
IDF is already saying that he was trying to steal their weapon that is why they killed him, even though he was handcuffed with his hands in the back and sitting. And there were no witnesses.
Let's see if justice will be done.
Let's.
Let's not fool anyone. If anybody is going to be punished in this story I am ready to eat my hat (and I don't mean some ridiculous punishment like suspended a 2-week sentence, but what you'd expect to be an appropriate punishment for murder.) In the recent years IDF made it pretty clear that the Palestinians can be murdered with virtual impunity. It is a bit less so in the case of "non-Arabs" and the only serious punishment doled out was in the case of the British photographer Thom Hurndall whose family led a long a protracted struggle with support of the UK government to bring justice to his killer. In that case Israel finally gave up, and the fact that the soldier who killed Hurndall was a Bedouin did hurt. In another story involving a dead Brit IDF is now paying 1.5 million pounds to his family in an out-of-court settlement. So, if the killing involves a non-Arab who has a family or government to fight for justice, then there is a slim chance. For Palestinians there is none. Yisrael may say whatever he wants, he won't be able to bring even one (1) case where a soldier (or a settler for that matter) was severely punished for murdering a Palestinian.
If Yisrael cared about justice, he'd fight to expose these cases, because in the end a corrupt justice system has an effect of a boomerang - it comes back to haunt you (not to mention that the same soldiers who think they can kill human beings with impunity later return to the society and rape, murder and abuse their fellow citizens.) For example, Yisrael will complain about Israeli police treating some settlers badly, but forgets that the same police is raised in the culture where it murders unarmed Palestinian and pro-Palestinian protesters almost as a matter of policy. So, what goes around comes around. You reap what you sow.
I meant to say "and the fact that the soldier who killed Hurndall was a Bedouin did not hurt" in the comment above.
Peter, you're barking up the wrong tree on the question of discrimination but that's okay.
"Sorry but you're oinking too loud" and then "you're barking".
And then you screaming about Arabs calling Jews pigs and dogs?
Peter, agree one hundred percent. Israel has been able to get away with more serious crimes than that. It's just too depressing to see this kind of injustice taking place and not able to do anything about it.
But at the end, what goes around comes around. Not necessary in the same way. Sooner or later. Universal law.
"Peter, you're barking up the wrong tree on the question of discrimination but that's okay."
How so? Not sure what you mean by "discrimination" in this context, but if it is the deliberate failure of Israel to pursue justice, I'd expect from you... well, if not righting about this on your blog then at the very least a nice word about, say, B'Tselem or Gideon Levy, who are among the few righteous in Sodom exposing these cases. Come on, Yisrael, put your money where your mouth is.
(Galia, I am OK with Yisrael using oinking and barking and more; from knowing him a little bit, he is a good natured fellow and has a knack for teasing sense of humor and use of idioms. Fine by me.)
Nice type above: "righting" should be "writing".
No comment from Yisrael yet... Hm, are you going to prove you are not all empty talk? Some responsibility for what you say?
Here is a chance for you. Comment on this piece on settler violence from an eye-witness. Please, mind you, don't be like a couple of idiots in the comments who claim the piece is biased since it doesn't mention settler suffering as well (as it clearly does - how moronic can one be to leave such a comment!?) or because it doesn't mention Hamas or Nebuchadnezzar or Haman or whatever other such nonsense. Be on the point.
Peter, i think by now i can bet money Mr. Medad won't answer your question and more money that he'll "be on the point" :)
Another depressing story here...
http://www.btselem.org/english/testimonies/20090212_settlers_assault_and_kidnap_adham_ghneimat.asp
"He kept saying I was lying, and that I wanted to steal from the settlement. He said that if I told him the truth, he would let me go."
Sounds familiar.
Let's see, there's a question there? I have to play a game and say a good word about B'tselem and Gideon Levy? You're kidding, right?
I spent several hours with Gideon at the Limmud Conference at Nottingham University three years ago and while it was apleasant conversation, with the participation of Rachel Elior, we didn't get anywhere. As for B'tselem, I was there at the beginning with all the Meretz people who founded it who I knew from the Knesset. I disagree that they are concerned with human rights, as they are concerned 98.5% with Arab rights only.
Reminds me of this
I am not sure it constitutes "good words", but, what the heck, Yisrael had "pleasant" and "Gideon" in the same sentence, that must be already progress.
As to your tiring point about human rights of the Jews, you still ignore the fact that while there is no lack of protection for such, there is a dire need to protect human rights of the Palestinians and B'Tselem and Gideon are of the few that try to do so (especially since the occupying power reneged on this responsibility long time ago.)
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