Vatican To Lose Mount Zion?

The Vatican will be recognizing some entity that calls itself the 'state of Palestine'.

If it ever thought that after years of negotiations it will now obtain more than just a right of access to the Cenacle on Mount Zion, a revered Jewish site, I think that's a no.

Or that should be a no.

___________

In 1537, Jews managed to expell the Franciscans from the site, which was a Jewish synagogue, after they took it over in the early 14th century.

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Vatican Stealth Moves

Watch this short video news clip and ask yourselves the following questions:

a) why sovereignty? the Vatican, from Herzl's days on, saw the renascent state of Israel as a big no-no, as for example:

When Theodor Herzl came to the Vatican in 1904 to plead with Pope Pius X (picture) to alleviate the suffering of European Jews, the pope bluntly told him that: «The Jews have not recognized our lord, therefore we cannot recognize the Jewish people». Herzl countered that perhaps terror and persecution were not the right means by which to enlighten them, but the pope rebuffed him: «They had ample time to acknowledge Christ’s divinity without pressure, but they didn’t»...On June 22, 1943, the Vatican sent these points to its apostolic delegation in Washington: «If the greater part of Palestine is given to the Jewish people, this would be a severe blow to the religious attachments of Catholics to this land. To have the Jewish people in the majority would interfere with the peaceful exercise of these rights in the Holy Land already vested in Catholics».

b) why should a building that was first a synagogue:

The original building was a synagogue later probably used by Jewish Christians. According to the Catholic Encyclopedia, the building was spared during the destruction of Jerusalem under Titus (AD 70),[15] though Pixner thinks it was likely rebuilt right after the war, and claims three walls of that structure are still extant...Roman emperor Theodosius I built an octagonal church (the "Theodosian Church" or "Holy Zion Church") aside the synagogue (that was named "Church of the Apostles"). The Theodosian Church, probably started on 382 AD, was consecrated by John II, Bishop of Jerusalem on 394 AD.

be awarded to the Vatican even if later used for Christian religious purposes? Will the Vatican sponsor and back our request to pray at the Temple Mount and perhaps doing some Temple-preparatory work or, at the ;east, assist we Jews to halt Muslim destruction/eradication work there?

The clip:

Do you have any better  answer than, "no, thank you"?

He does
Don't bow to the Vatican.:


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Mount Zion Going Catholic?

A good friend sent me this news item:

After 18 years of tough negotiations, the Catholic Church agreed to waive its demand to receive sovereignty over the Cenacle (the location of the "Last Supper") on Jerusalem's Mount Zion. In return, Israel agreed to consider giving the Church access to the place and even consider a leasing option.

I replied

if we don't get full equivalency visitation rights to the Temple Mount, why this?

To which she responded

On the grand scale of things you have a point, but back on the ground among Israeli diplomats and negotiators its apples and oranges – Vatican and Wakf . Take it up with Daniel Ayalon. Looks Gregorian chants and high mass now be heard on Diaspora Yeshiva grounds and throughout the area of the traditional Tomb of King David.

And I came back with

look on the bright side, if the RC Church can claim "historic rights" from mid-4th century to a building that originally was a synagogue, well, I am on the right track.

The Temple Mount was a temple before being a mosque compound.


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Is Mt. Zion In The Vatican's Sights, Again?

Israel's Foreign Ministry informs

DFM Ayalon to head Israeli delegation to the Vatican

DFM Ayalon will head an Israel delegation that is leaving today to attend a plenary session of the Israel-Vatican Bilateral Permanent Working Commission

...[today] 13 June 2011), [Ayalon will] attend a plenary session of the Bilateral Permanent Working Commission between the State of Israel and the Holy See. During his visit, DFM Ayalon will meet with his counterpart Under-Secretary for Relations with States Monsignor Ettore Balestrero, and will discuss with him the possibilities of promoting bilateral relations and other political issues.

Will Mt. Zion's status as a Jewish holy site be endangered?

I blogged about this back in 2006, and more than once, as here.

Remember back in 2005, and in 2006 and in 2009.

There was even a petition signed by Sharon Katz, Ellen Horowitz, Yisrael Medad, Shlomo Alfassi and the Committee to Save Mount Zion.

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Dust Sky in Jerusaelm

We've had fog in Jerusalem,

and we've had cloudy skies,

and we've had snowy skies

And now, we have had dust skies:

a) looking towards the King David Hotel-


b) looking towards Mt. Zion -


c) looking towards the hidden Jaffa Gate -

Is Handing Over Mt. Zion The Pope's "Gift"?

A special Vatican delegation responsible for preparing Pope Benedict XVI's official visits around the world...met with President's Residence Director-General Efrat Duvdevani, President Peres's senior advisers, representatives from the Foreign, Religious Services and Interior ministries, and officials from Unit for VIP Security in order to discuss a comprehensive plan for a visit by Pope Benedict XVI, who is considering the possibility of visiting Israel in 2009.

See here also.

Mel Gibson is the Winner

“Let us pray for the Jews. May the Lord Our God enlighten their hearts so that they may acknowledge Jesus Christ, the savior of all men.”

That above is the new version of the old prayer prior to the Second Vatican Council in the Good Friday Mass in Latin which had Catholics praying for the conversion of Jews which refered to the “blindness” of the Jews and calling upon God to “lift a veil from their hearts.”

As is explained here, in a Catholic journal:-

It is disturbing that in this era of theological reconciliation and ecumenical dialogue there is even a suggestion of anti-Semitism on the part of Catholics worldwide. Recently, Benedict XVI permitted the restoration of the Tridentine liturgy in the Church. There were anti-Semitic parts of the Good Friday liturgy prior to Vatican II. However since the reforms of the Second Vatican Council the Catholic Church has been instrumental in pioneering a new and restored relationship with the Children of Israel...Any suggestion that derogatory roots of our old misunderstandings and misinterpretations of theological beliefs between Catholicism and Judaism are just plain wrong, and need to be dispelled...

...The speculation in the secular press that the permission to restore elements of the Tridentine Rite that implies a restoration of anti-Semitism is completely unfounded and just plainly erroneous. The Holy See has been quite clear in this message, and all Catholics should protest any suggestions that indicate the Holy Father suggests otherwise.

Our liturgical Liturgy of the Word has as its foundation the ancient synagogue services of Judaism in the first century a.d. The Liturgy of the Eucharist is rooted in the ancient celebration of the Passover meal. Our Catholic altars and even our tabernacles are based upon the sacred altar of the Temple of Jerusalem and the presence of God in the Old Testament, Holy of Holies. We Catholic are dedicated to a deepening understanding and participation in faith with the first called People of God more today than perhaps anytime since the Apostolic era...

Here's more:-

The Vatican daily L'Osservatore Romano published the revised prayer which will be said on Good Friday, the day before Easter when Christians remember Christ's crucifixion. The Latin mass is usually performed by a traditional Catholic minority, and the issue resurfaced after Benedict XVI issued a Papal decree in 2007 allowing a more widespread use of Latin for mass.

...Pope Benedict XVI deleted references to the 'blindness' of the Jews in a Latin prayer, after Jewish groups protested and asked him to change it. A passage calling for the 'conversion of the Jews' is to remain in the prayer.

"Let's also pray for the Jews, so that God illuminates their heart and recognize Jesus Christ as saviour of all men," the prayer reads. The prayer, a call for the conversion of Jews, appears in the traditional Latin mass which is rarely celebrated now. The revised version of the prayer will delete references to Jews' 'blindness' , 'darkness' and a call that God 'may lift the veil from their hearts'.

Even the weakest of the traditional Jewish Rabbinical organizations are hot about this:-

Rabbi Joel H. Meyers, executive vice president of the Rabbinical Assembly, the Conservative rabbis’ group, said leaders from the Reform and Reconstructionist movements had also been in touch with him about issuing a joint statement on the papal revision.

“We have been very much involved in interfaith activities and dialogue for years, and relationships with the Catholic Church are really quite good,” the rabbi said. “I think it really turns back the clock a bit and reverts to some sense that the church is pulling back from the positions it took in Vatican II.”

The way I read this, though, it's that Hollywood actor, Mel Gibson, who has won. Besides his gutter antisemitism, he's the one who wanted the old Latin version to replace the vernacular text.

May I suggest that Israel get involved. How?

By halting all negotiations over Mt. Zion and other sites which the Vatican wants to steal back from us.