Jerusalem's Demography 1880-1948

Is Jerusalem a 'Jewish city'?

Today's anti/non-Zionists refuse to acknowledge Jerusalem's Jewish history and status or the fact that a concept of "East/West Jerusalem", at the most, was a 19 year aberration in the city's 3000 year history.

One measure is demography. What was the percentage of the city's Jewish community amongst the various populations prior to the city becoming "Israeli"? The city, by 1870, already had a Jewish plurality. And the succeeding years?

For reference:

The first table presents the growth of Jerusalem's population and as it is in Hebrew, we need read from right to left.

The years are 1880, 1900, 1910, 1931 and 1948.

In the walled Old City, the population dropped from 19,000 to 2,000 and of course, on May 28, 1948, the Jewish Quarter, the last of the areas where Jews still lived, surrendered.

In the New City, the Jewish population grew from 2,000 to 98,000.

The lower table focuses on the Old City with its Jewish and Arab population in 1880, 1910, 1922 and 1931, the last two years from the official British census counts (here and here). hy there are slight differences,  do not know.

In any case, the Arab terror riots of 1929 and then 1936-39 quite clearly caused an ethnic cleansing result of Jews from the city where Jews had lived consistently since the 12th century and in previous centuries, from 135 CE, at the will of foreign subjugators and rulers as feasible.

A second reference source of Jerusalem populations figures broken down to Arabs and Jews:

The figures are in the 1000s.

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How Many Jews Reside in Post-67 Jerusalem?

I have posted about this before but as a figure of 325,000 has been published, I think a review of the most up-to-date figures should be reviewed.

From the Jerusalem Institute Yearbook for 2019, with 2017 figures (Jewish growth rate is 1.5% annually).

Their over all figure is 215,900.

Their breakdown by neighborhoods:

I can't come up with more than 225,000 Jews, even rounding off upwards.

I think a detailed explanation is required to justify a difference of some 100,000 Jews.

And don't get me wrong. I hope I am proven wrong.


^

How Many Jews Across-the-Green-Line in Jerusalem?

From this 2011 report on Jerusalem:

At the end of 2009....Of the Jewish population, 193,700 lived in areas added to the city in 1967, representing 42% of the total number of residents of those areas and 39% of the total Jewish population of the city. Population figures for the larger Jewish neighborhoods constructed after 1967 were as follows: 40,400 in Ramot Alon; 39,800 in Pisgat Ze’ev; 29,000 in Gilo; 18,600 in Neve Ya’acov; 14,200 in Ramat Shlomo (Rekhes Shu’afat); and 13,700 in East Talpiot.

I checked more recent date from here, the Jerusalem Institute for Israel Studies Statistical yearbook 2012 edition with figures from end of 2010 (two years ago):

Neve Yaakov                  19,700
Pisgat Ze'ev                   40,400
Ramat Shlomo                14,560
Ramot Allon                   41,400
Ramot Eshkol,
Givat Mivtar, Sanhedria   15,600
Givat Shapira                  8,600
East Talpiyot                 14,000
Har Homa                      40,000
Gilo                              29,535
Jewish Quarter                3,100

which all adds up to 227,000 more or less (I didn't count Jews living in the Muslim Quarter).

That's an increase of 33,300.

But there are almost two more years of growth to include.

"Almost a quarter of a million Jews in across-the-Green-Line Jerusalem" sound okay?

Anybody want to check my calculations?

^

13%...And Growing

In an otherwise biased report on the latest Oxfam report on economic prosperity that isn't - and who is to be blamed if not me and my fellow revenant residents - I found this figure at the BBC:

Oxfam says about 66,000 Palestinians and 9,500 settlers live in the area...who account for 13% of the population

13%.

That is very good news.


____________

P.S.

The official response is inadequate:

A spokesman for the Israeli embassy in London, Amir Ofek, said: "Oxfam's latest report on the situation in the Palestinian territories puts a clearly political agenda above any humanitarian concern."  "Its call to the international community and to NGOs to initiate projects which clearly violate existing agreements is irresponsible and inflammatory. Far from advancing peace, such an approach undermines the prospects of reaching a negotiated resolution to the conflict."

While not untrue, it doesn't address any of the supposed "facts".  Are there actually that number of Arabs in the area?  Have they engaged in terror?  What was their pre-'67 and even pre-'48 population and what can we learn?  If the 20 Jewish communities disappear, how many jobs are lost?  Do they Arabs own the land there or are they recent immigrants or what?  Did they have any industry before Israel took over administration of the area, any export trade, what was their agriculture like, etc.?


^

New Yesha Statistics

At the (Hebrew) Eye on Yesha blog, and at the official Yesha Council blog, there's the results of a statistic study on the religious outlook viewpoints of the 340,000 Yesha residents conducted by the Yesha Councill research unit.  There are graphs, as well.

Some highlights:

National - Religious:   34%

Hareidi -                   32%

Secular -                   34%


Among the 80,000 residents of Local Councils,
45% NR; 46% S; 9% H.

City/municipal, 150,000 residents,
62% H; 29% S; 9% NR.

Regional councils, 110,000 residents,
62% NR; 31% S; 7% S.

^

Great Demographic News

The news source, but with my rewrite redaction:

Settlements Jewish communities in the occupied West Bank areas of Judea and Samaria, portions of the historic Jewish national homeland, gained 3,500 residents last year and settlers the Jewish revenants popualtion had the largest families of any Israeli community, with an average of 4.6 persons, a government survey said.

It said about four percent of all Israelis, equivalent to about 312,000 people, live in Jewish settlements cities, towns and villages in the West Bank area of Judea and Samaria.

Sorry for the striking out there but I think the media doesn't have to take semantic sides.

But it's good news nevertheless.


^

The Improving Demographics of YESHA

Another demographic look at the population of Yesha, this time the school pupils.

Today, over 130,000 schoolchildren went to school today in Yesha, the first day of the new school year 5772, 2011-2012.

That includes kindergartens, primary schools, middle schools, high schools.

In the primary schools, there are more than 51,000 pupils, up from 46,000 last year.

The numbers of those entering the first grade is 7,500, which represents a 9% increase, 600 more than last year's figure.

This year, more the 50 new kindergartens and nurseries were opned than existed last year.

All this, of course, indicates a steady and constant growth of the Jewish population in Judea and Samaria.


(thanks to Yigal Dilmoni of the YESHA Council)

^

BBC on Our Demographics

BBC:

More than 500,000 Jewish settlers live in the West Bank, including East Jerusalem, among a Palestinian population of about 2.5 million.

More, actually.

At least 330,000 in Judea and Samaria and over 250,000 in the new neighborhoods in Jerusalem's north, east and south.

Here's Bibi Netanyahu's Joinst Session of Congress speech:

...the dramatic demographic changes that have occurred since 1967. The vast majority of the 650,000 Israelis who live beyond the 1967 lines reside in neighborhoods and suburbs of Jerusalem and Greater Tel Aviv. These areas are densely populated but geographically quite small. Under any realistic peace agreement, these areas, as well as other places of critical strategic and national importance, will be incorporated into the final borders of Israel.

^

The Demography of Jordan

Reported:

Fertility rates declined from 5.6 live births per woman of reproductive age (15-49 years) in 1990 to 28 per thousand in 2009 and the use of family planning methods increased from 40.2 per cent in 1990 to 59.3 per cent in 2009.

Collectively, these developments have led to a decline in the average family size from 6.9 persons in 1994 to 5.4 members in 2004 and to 5.1 members in 2009. Moreover, migration rates fell from 0.5 per cent in the 1980s to about 0.1 per cent in 2009.

As I have suggested previously in connection with the demographics of Arabs west of the Jordan River - better medical attention, increased family planning, more education and the natural decline of any population is what occurs.

^

Jews Beyond the "Green Line" in Jerusalem

This is a map that appeared last week in a story published by Maariv on Jews in "east Jerusalem". I have added the correct Hebrew names of the communities and even added Neveh Yaakov, although there are a few others, too, that were left off the map, like: Ramot Eshkol; Givat HaMivtar; French's Hill; Ramat Shlomo; East Talpiot; etc. - why they are absent, I do not know (one of Ir Amim's list; and a map of their's;)

One source of the demographics is here:

At the end of 2008, the population of East Jerusalem was 456,300, comprising 60% of Jerusalem's residents. Of these, 195,500 (43%) are Jews, (comprising 40% of the Jewish population of Jerusalem as a whole), 260,800 (57%) are Muslim (comprising 98% of the Muslim population of Jerusalem) [*].

That is a bit low.

The map above has these figures for the Jewish population:

Gilo - 32,000
Har Homa - 20,000
Nof Tzion - 75 families
'Muslim' Quarter - 1000
Ir David - 60 families
Maaleh Zeitim - 110 families
Shimon HaTzadik - 15 families
Ramot Allon - 46,000
Pisgat Ze'ev - 42,000

which totals 141,000 + 260 families (c. 1000) which leaves missing some 50,000.


Going here (in Hebrew), I found the Statistical Yearbook which adds, as of the end of 2009, 2400 Jews in the Jewish Quarter; 18,600 in Neveh Yaakov; 14,200 in Ramat Shlomo; 10,300 for Ramat Eshkol/Givat HaMivtar; 13,700 in East Talpiot and there are lower discrepanices for other neighborhoods mentioned. But more than the "missing" 50,000 is there. And that was some two years ago.

All of which, at the end of this, makes for an exercise in poor research.



P.S. Do not forget, before 1855, there were no "neighbohoods" except within the Old City walls and the Jewish population was the majority already by 1853.

^

So, How Many Jewish (yes, Jewish) Refugees Are There?

I need your assistance with a mathematical problem.

The official UN accepted number of Arab refugees is actually 4.8 million which takes into account their descendants.

Here:

Under UNRWA's operational definition, Palestine refugees are people whose normal place of residence was Palestine between June 1946 and May 1948, who lost both their homes and means of livelihood as a result of the 1948 Arab-Israeli conflict. [wow, just two years of residency and you are a "Palestinian" refugee. that's shorter than most citizenship requirements and, considering that many of the Arabs who became "refugees" were recent transients from neighboring countries due to the better economic situation in the Palestine Mandate, downright unfair]

UNRWA's services are available to all those living in its area of operations who meet this definition, who are registered with the Agency and who need assistance. The descendants of the original Palestine refugees are also eligible for registration. When the Agency started working in 1950, it was responding to the needs of about 750,000 Palestine refugees. Today, 4.8 million Palestine refugees are eligible for UNRWA services.

By the way, in 1951, Israel informed UNRWA to stop assisting Jewish refugees from the territories of Judea, Samaria and gaza, just over 3,000 (with an additional 15,000 almost of non-Jews) as the stat of Israel could do that by itself.


[CORRECTION (k/t = EOZ):  from the 1950 UNRWA Report - 30. In Israel, the Agency has provided relief to two types of refugees, Jews who fled inside the borders of Israel during the fighting, and Arabs in most instances displaced from one area in Palestine to another. Jewish refugees at first numbered 17,000 but, during the current summer, all but 3,000 of these have been absorbed into the economic life of the new State. Arabs on relief were first numbered at 31,000 but many have been placed in circumstances in which they are self-supporting, so that it was possible to reduce the number to 24,000 at the end of August 1950.
31. Recent discussions with the Israel Government indicate that the idea of relief distribution is repugnant to it, and the Agency was informed that already many of the 24,000 remaining refugees were employed and that all able-bodied refugees desiring employment could be absorbed on works projects if they would register at the government registry offices for that purpose. It was stated that they all have status as citizens of Israel and are entitled to treatment as such. It was claimed that after cessation of relief, aged and infirm refugees would be cared for under the normal social welfare machinery of Israel. The Agency was requested to share financially in a programme of re-establishment of displaced Arabs now within the boundaries of Israel.]
 
Now, the question has come up: if the number of Jewish refugees from Arab lands is that "there were more former Jewish refugees uprooted from Arab countries (over 850,000) than there were Palestinians who became refugees in 1948. (UN estimate: 726,000)" ( from JJAC) but there's this, too: "A total of 586,269 Jews from Arab countries arrived in Israel with at least 200,000 emigrating to France, England and the Americas. Including their offspring, the total number of Jews who were displaced from their homes in Arab countries and who live in Israel today is 1,136,436, about 41% of the total population. At least another 500,000 currently reside in France, Canada, the United States, Latin America and Australia" (from this 2002 paper) can anyone accurately calculate a true number of  "Jewish refugees from Arab lands" that need to be included in any discussion of refugee rights?  Or is 1.2 million fair based on the above?
The Arab annual growth rate could be probably 1.0317.

If we start with 800,000 Jews and apply the same growth we get 5.2m in 2008. I'd say you could happily claim anywhere from 3.8 million to 5.2 million descendants of Jewish refugees which doesn't add up to the quoted figures above.

So, who knows math?

______________________

This:

"Silent Exodus"


More than a million Jews were expelled from Arab and Muslim countries between 1948 and 1974, without asking for compensation or the right to return. Pierre Rehov's "Silent Exodus", is a tribute to their tragedy.

Promo reel.

Full Length Movie

______________________________________
______________________________________

BOL has suggested these numbers -

Just by using the same growth rate as the Pals. we have this data:


Palestine Arabs, Growth Rate: 1.03, if in 1948 711,000, then in 2012 = 5,233,917
Jews, Growth Rate: 171.03, if in 1948 800,000, then in 2012 = 5,889,076

So, if the Arabs can claim 4.8 million (and not 6 million like that Coldplay recommended song asserted), well Jewish refugess from Arab Lands number 5.9 million.


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While we're on demographics, consider this:

...fresh from the just-released update of the United Nations' population forecasts: At constant fertility, Israel will have more young people by the end of this century than either Turkey or Iran, and more than German, Italy or Spain.  With a total fertility rate of three children per woman, Israel's total population will rise to 24 million by the end of the present century. Iran's fertility is around 1.7 and falling, while the fertility for ethnic Turks is only 1.5 (the Kurdish minority has a fertility rate of around 4.5).

...if present trends continue, Israel will be able to field the largest land army in the Middle East. That startling data point, though, should alert analysts to a more relevant problem: among the military powers in the Middle East, Israel will be the only one with a viable population structure by the middle of this century.

That is why it is in America's interest to keep Israel as an ally. Israel is not only the strongest power in the region; in a generation or two it will be the only power in the region, the last man standing among ruined neighbors. The demographic time bomb in the region is not the Palestinian Arabs on the West Bank, as the Israeli peace party wrongly believed, but rather Israel itself.

^

Figures

NPR has admitted is "has underestimated the number of Israeli Jews living in settlements in the West Bank and Israeli-annexed East Jerusalem". Alicia Shepherd, NPR's ombudsperson (?), then continued:

NPR was wrong simply because the source it used – the much-respected CIA "World Factbook" – is wrong on that point and has been for several years.

In June 2009, NPR reported the total number of settlers as 250,000 and then corrected the figure to "460,000 to 480,000."...On May 11, NPR reported the number at 365,000, and Henry Norr, of Berkeley, CA, demanded a correction. “How can NPR possibly have so much trouble getting straight the basic facts about the Israeli occupation of Palestine?” wrote Norr, a Jewish Palestine-solidarity activist.

“The [CIA] Factbook relies on population data provided by the international programs division of the U.S. Census Bureau,” said CIA media spokeswoman Paula Weiss. When I asked Peter D. Johnson of the U.S. Census Bureau's International Program Center about the mystery, he replied, "The information I got is the numbers may have come from some open public source but we don't know which one...“I’m surprised and displeased, and it makes me wonder what other information is out-of-date or incorrect in the CIA World Factbook,” said Chuck Holmes, foreign editor for NPR Digitial.

...The Israeli government’s Central Bureau of Statistics, estimated 301,000 Israelis live in Judea and Samaria, the biblical name for the West Bank, as of Sept. 1, 2009.

The Israeli government doesn’t provide a separate population figure for East Jerusalem because it considers that part of the city to be Israeli territory and part of Jerusalem. Israel's annexation of East Jerusalem has not been acknowledged internationally, by the United Nations, the United States, or most other countries.

The number of Israeli Jews living in East Jerusalem is generally believed to be between 180,000 and 200,000...Numbers matter for journalistic accuracy and credibility – and, in this particular case, for an internationally important practical reason.

Israeli settlements in both the West Bank and East Jerusalem have been a central issue in every attempt to negotiate a long-term peace agreement in the Middle East.

Palestinians claim that for decades the Israeli government has been building settlements, and encouraging Israelis to move into them, to create "facts on the ground" that will block any peace deal from turning the West Bank and any part of East Jerusalem over to the Palestinians.

Israel doesn't officially acknowledge this as a motivation for the settlements. But many settlers (backed by powerful political allies in most recent governments) say their presence guarantees permanent Israeli control of the land – and so more settlers equals more certainty for this goal.

With that in mind, my suggestion is that in the future, when reporting on Israeli settlers in the West Bank and East Jerusalem, NPR should use the figure of "nearly 500,000," attributed to the State Department. For now, the CIA numbers are not reliable.

NPR's foreign desk now agrees and will use the 500,000 figure in the future, said Roberts...

Guys, my figures are no more than 320,000 in Judea and Samaria and at least 200,000 in Jerusalem's new neighborhoods.

Tibi Thumbs Lieberman/Ayalon

Here's MK Ahmed Tibi's response, in part, to the suggestion of Yisrael Beiteinu heads that Israel's border be redrawn to place Arabs on the other, estern, side of the Green Line:

"We are not chess pawns. We did not arrive in the country on planes and we did not immigrate here," Tibi said. "We do not wish to expel anyone…but if someone wishes to expel us, I'll say this: Whoever got here last will be leaving first. That way, there will be fewer fascists in Israel."

That rule of thumb, "Whoever got here last will be leaving first", can work both ways.

How many Arabs are recent immigrants from the 1830s when Muhammed Ali poured in residents from North Africa, and when, during the Mandate, Syrian Arabs and others arrived, illegally, to take advantage of the economic boom?

Read "From Time Immemorial", and Daniel Pipes' fair review, and other books.

Demography Demonlogy Not Scary

Some 80% of the opposition to Israel retaining the territories, in Jerusalem and Washington, among other locations where people really think they know how to think, is the demographics issue.

That is, too many Arabs means Israel will be swamped and must choose: either a repressive regime or bye-bye to a Jewish state.

Read this:

Muslim Israelis' growth rate slows down

The birthrate of the Muslim community in Israel is on the decline, according to data provided by the Central Bureau of Statistics (CBS)...at the end of 2008 the Muslim population in Israel stood at 1.240 million, an increase of 34,000 compared with the previous year.

The growth rate, 2.8 percent, is a whole percentage point lower than the 3.8% measured in 2000.

...The Muslim population in Israel is relatively young, with 510,000 - 41.2% of the overall Muslim population - aged up to 14. Only 3% (around 37,000) were found to be older than 65.

The relatively young age stems from Muslim women's high fertility rate; however, the overall fertility rate (the number of children a woman is expected to give birth to during her lifetime) has dropped from 4.7 per woman in 2000 to 3.8 per woman in 2008...

Jerusalem's Population

At the end of 2006, the population of Jerusalem , all its neighborhoods, east and west, was 733,329.

To that, we add its Judea and Samaria environs (rounded off):

Efrat 7,500
Betar Illit 27,000
Givat Ze'ev 10,600
Gush Etzion 12,200
Modi'in Illit 30,500
Maten Binyamin 40,000
Maaleh Adumin 30,000
Kirya Arba 7,000
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163,800

All adding up to almost 900,000.

And three years have passed.

Do you realize what that mass of population means - without including Bet Shemesh, Mateh Yehudah, etc. vs. the "West Bank of the Palestinian Authority"?

Encouraging

Despite the rest of this article, I especially enjoyed this part:

Despite the international clamour over settlements in the West Bank, there seems to be no shortage of ideologically motivated Israelis and new immigrants aspiring to make a home there.

According to the Israeli Central Bureau of Statistics, the settler population in the West Bank rose 5 per cent last year to 289,600 people, compared with population growth of 1.8 per cent in Israel last year.

The Jews of YESHA of Yesteryear

In my LATimes op-ed last week, I wrote this:

Some have questioned why Jews should be allowed to resettle areas in which they didn't live in the years preceding the 1967 war, areas that were almost empty of Jews before 1948 as well. But why didn't Jews live in the area at that time? Quite simple: They had been the victims of a three-decades-long ethnic cleansing project...In 1929, Hebron's centuries-old Jewish population was expelled as a result of an Arab pogrom that killed almost 70 Jews. Jews that year removed themselves from Gaza, Nablus and Jenin. The return of my family to Shiloh -- and of other Jews to more than 150 other communities over the Green Line since 1967 -- is not solely a throwback to claimed biblical rights. Nor is it solely to assert our right to return to areas that were Jewish-populated in the 20th century until Arab violence drove them away.

During this past week I got to thinking that there are probably people who simply don't believe what I wrote.

Well, here's a chart from the 1931 British census of the Mandate, taken from the Palestine Royal Commission Report of July 1937:

If you add up the number of Jews in Gaza, Hebron, Bethlehem, Jericho, Ramallah, Nablus and Jenin, the sum is 856. If you add Tulkarm, it becomes 1522 but I am not sure if that area was solely an Arab district but rather included kibbutzim in the area that would be considered in Israel today. In 1921, the sum total was 799, again without Tulkarm which was 23.

And if you go here, you can count the number of Jews in the area of Judea, Samaria and Gaza yourself and understand why I am suspect of Tulkarm. I add up the figures 3540 Gaza (which probably includes kibbutzim the the western Negev as well as Kfar Azza and 300 in Hebron (Bethelehem isn't listed so this would include the Gush Etzion kibbutzim which, of course, increased by 1948). So, perhaps there were just under 1000 (the numbers for the other districts previously populated by Jews is "negligible").

Which proves my two points:

a) the claim by Jews today to return to Judea and Samaria is not based solely on an ancient "Biblical right" but a demographic reality of the 20th century.

and

b) the reason more Jews weren't in those areas was a campaign of Arab ethnic cleansing by pogrom and riot and rape and rapine.

I almost rest my case.

One more element. In the back of the Report, I found a map of "Jewish-owned Land", marked in yellow.

Here's the big picture:



and here's the area of Judea, Samaria and Gaza:



you will, of course notice, that land-purchases had been made. And there were another 10 years left to the Mandate and additional purchases were made.

Jews were and belong in YESHA: Judea, Samaria and Judea.

P.S.

I had just clicked on this to upload and then I thought I'd take a look at the LATimes and if any letters were published.

Lo and behold, I read these:

Are settlements over the line?

Re “On rocky ground: Israel’s settlements in occupied territory violate the rights of Palestinians, and international law says they must go,” Opinion, June 28, and

Yisrael Medad's article on Jewish settlements would be laughable if it weren't so tragic. Through specious logic and linguistic sleight of hand, he has attempted to make the Palestinians guilty of ethnic cleansing and denying the Jews the right of return. Does he really think we're that gullible?

Paul McDermott, Los Angeles

[Last year, Paul was horrified: "Paul McDermott — United States (11/20/2008 2:52:38 PM) - As a former archaeologist I am horrified by the work done by Elad in the King David National Park. From what I have read this group is serving only the goal of advancing Jewish nationalism in Palestine and not historical truth. and five years ago, Paul McDermott, Teacher, Los Angeles, CA signed on to an anti-Iraq war petition]
::
An inspired choice to let Medad be the spokesman for the pro-settler position.

Out of his own mouth, he proves that the settlements are purely an Israeli land grab with no modern legal justification at all.

I love the principle that "every Jew is entitled to live wherever he pleases." By that logic, no country in the world has the right to use immigration controls to restrict the inflow of Jewish immigrants. So if all the Mexicans who wish to immigrate to the U.S. just converted to Judaism ... well, that's an immigration problem solved.

Heck, the Mexicans are "revenants" too.

Erica Hahn, Monrovia
[an "Erica Hahn, member of Arbeiterring, Huntington Beach" signed on to a Women in Black petition in 2006 and was a pro-Pal. talkbacker, #67,here and #59 here]
::
Bravo, Sarah Leah Whitman.

She has, in a few concise paragraphs, clearly summarized the situation in Israel/Palestine and suggested what should be an obvious solution to the problem: Move the settlers back to Israel, thereby protecting their rights without violating the rights of the Palestinians.

Judy Neunuebel, Santa Barbara
[if you search her, seems she's an official of Americans for a Just Peace in the Middle East and a talkbacker at some "Third Way" initiative, #4 and signed a "Jewish Voice for Peace" petition, #21]
::
In his commentary, Medad seems to use "nothing illegal about a Jew living where Judaism was born" to justify the settlers' taking of property in the West Bank for their own use.

This attitude seems incredibly arrogant and dismissive of the rights of the Palestinians with homes or other property in the West Bank. Medad needs to consider the rights of the Palestinians. In fact, having lived there over that same period of time, wouldn't Palestinians have at least the same rights to the land as the Israelis?

It seems as if Medad is offering a very poor rationalization for taking something that does not belong to him.

William T. Parker, San Diego
::
Medad claims that preventing Jews from living in the occupied territories would smack of racism.

Well, how about Israeli policies that keep Palestinians from living in most of Israel, whether they're stateless residents of the West Bank and Gaza or non-Jewish citizens of Israel itself?

Steve Roddy, San Francisco
[a University professor, he's a pro-boycott person, #122 and he's #146 here
::
Thank you for publishing these courageous Op-Ed articles. I was thrilled to see a newspaper allowing both sides of the story to be told.

Hana Gheith, Oak Lawn, Ill.
::
No doubt some may hurl epithets at Whitson for drawing attention to the fact that the Israeli settlements are illegal under international law.

But, like many American Jews, I agree: The settlements are not only illegal but the primary obstacle to peace.

Medad, on the other hand, has some strange ideas about law and history. He seems to think that a law or proclamation can't be superseded, or that a set of "principles" carries the force of law and justifies the violation of another people's fundamental rights.

I agree that Jews should be allowed to settle in the West Bank. In fact, the Palestinian Authority has made clear that, with the resolution of property claims and compensation as appropriate, Jews would be welcome -- under Palestinian sovereignty.

If Jews could be citizens in a Palestinian state -- much like Christian and Muslim Arabs can be citizens in Israel -- would Medad accept it? Or would he be afraid that the Palestinians would treat their Jewish citizens like Israel treats its Arabs?

Mark Kaswan, Sherman Oaks
[he's a Doctoral Candidate in Political Science who is a Jew who won't be celebrating Israel's Independence and he also moderated the “Co-existence, Co-resistance and Co-operation” educational program on May 15, 2004 entitled “The Past, Present and Future of Israel/Palestine.” He defended Rashid Khalidi over here and signed on a support petition, he's 18657, for Israeli soldiers to refuse to serve.
::
Ultimately, there will be a two-state solution, but there will have to be some negotiation about territory. The Green Line is simply where fighting stopped.

A Palestinian state may have to accommodate some Jewish minority living in its territory, as Israel has an Arab minority living in its.

The ability to negotiate around such distributions of populations may prove the real test of whether peace in the region is possible.

Elliott Oring, Long Beach

I guess I should be honored that so many professional pro-Pal. activists felt the need to respond.

I just can't believe that no similar pro-Israel letters were not sent.

Demographic Fact

"2,100 couples...marry each year in Judea and Samaria"

source

Do the math.

One Fact; One Dubious Opinion

The UK Guardian reports:

There are currently nearly 500,000 settlers living in east Jerusalem and the West Bank.

All settlements are illegal under international law...

One fact. One opinion.

Finally, someone gets his data correct.

Some 300,000 in Judea and Samaria and 200,000 in the neighbors of eastern Jerusalem.

East Jerusalem the Arabs consider "occupied" as does the US State Department. Most Israelis would be shocked, though, to find out that West Jerusalem is also considered by the State Department not to be under Israel's sovereignty - they still dream of some internationalization/corpus separatum arrangement from 1947. As was noted,

...the [US] consul in Jerusalem reported April 9 [1949] that Prime Minister Ben Gurion had told him that "Jerusalem is to Jews what Rome and Paris are to Italians and French respectively."

and also there:

Moshe Shapira, the original [sic. should be "first'] Israeli immigration minister: "For us, the State of Israel without Jerusalem is an amputated state: True, we agreed to a state without Jerusalem in 1947; but we merely waited until an opportunity arose to rectify the situation."

And as for that "international law" bit, well, you know what I think.

VOA Report Is A Bit Misleading

VOA broadcast a story recently:

Obama Endorses Two-State Solution for Arab-Israeli Conflict

...President Barack Obama sent his Middle East envoy to the region to kick-start a process to end the decades-long Palestinian-Israeli conflict. The effort will focus on the so-called "two-state solution," which would establish a Palestinian state in the West Bank and Gaza Strip coexisting peacefully alongside the Jewish state.

...Obama sent his special envoy, former Senator George Mitchell, to the region...Mitchell said reaching a peace agreement will be tough.

...Jewish settlements in the occupied West Bank constitute one of the toughest problems on the way to peace.

Some 200 thousand [actually much more. FMEP has 282,000 at end of 2007 (excluding Jerusalem I guess); the PCB counted 483,453 at end of 2007, including Jerusalem; & Peace Now claims 285,000 at end of 2008, again w/o Jerusalem and East Jerusalem Jews numbered 184,057 at the end of 2005 which means almost 200,000 at the growth rate FMEP recorded which means over one-half million Jews the Arabs consider "settlers"] Jewish settlers(*) live there. Most would have to be relocated in Israel proper, under the usual view of the two-state solution.

..."I think that rather than build peace exclusively from the top down with political agreements, we have to add to the political process building peace from the bottom up by making the lives of our Palestinian neighbors a lot better so they have a stake in peace," Netanyahu said.

James Zogby is president of the Arab American Institute in Washington. He says Obama must be tough with Israel on West Bank settlement and the continuing occupation if a solution is to be found. "Certainly, they [the Israelis] are not going to move unless they are moved, and they are not going to be moved unless the U.S. president says, 'This must end,'" Zogby said.

On the Palestinian side, there are also problems. Palestinians are divided between Fatah, the moderate faction running the West Bank, and Hamas, the militant group that rules in Gaza and refuses to renounce violence. Israel and the United States refuse to engage with Hamas.

Ali Abu Minnah is a Palestinian author living in Chicago. He advocates a one-state solution, in other words, a bi-national state. "The two-state solution is neither available nor stable nor just, and this is why we have opened the discussion," he said.

William Quandt worked in the Carter administration in the 1970s and was involved in negotiations that led to the Egyptian-Israeli Peace Treaty of 1979. He says the two-state solution is the only hope. "I think the two-state solution comes back into focus for us because there is no good alternative in terms of a negotiated solution," the University of Virginia professor said.

Zogby says Arab states should help with reconstruction in the Gaza Strip and with Palestinian nation building, and also offer Israel incentives for peace...

So, we had a non-interviewed quotation from Netanyahu and Obama and Mitchell and then Zogby, Abu Minnah and Quandt.

Another balanced media background report.

That the reporter's name is Mohamed Elshinnawi has nothing to do with this.

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(*)

Another reason not to use the word "settlers":

The Settlers (also known as Serf City, original German title Die Siedler) is a slow-paced Real Time Strategy computer game by German developer Blue Byte Software, first released in 1993 for Commodore Amiga and in 1994 for the PC. It was the first game of its type, blending together principles which had not been seen in a single game before, and defined the line of the later Settlers games. On the hardware available at the time, the game could control a maximum of 64,000 individuals, all behaving autonomously.

That's why I prefer "revenants".