Showing posts with label Christian theology. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Christian theology. Show all posts

Sunday, May 10, 2020

Proselytizing Broadcasting in Israel?

|This is an expanded version of this JNS column|
___________ 

There are Christians who still seek to convert Jews despite knowing well that most Jews view this activity as disrespectful and some term it as soul-snatching. 

A recent effort to reach out to Jews in Israel is that of 
Here is the story in Haaretz; and in the Jewish Press; and in the Jerusalem Post.
Vic has responded.

This group has attempted this before as attested to a 2006 Hebrew item I found and here is one from the Los Angeles Times in 2012:


The dueling studios are part of an aggressive push by U.S. evangelical broadcasters seeking to gain a stronger foothold in the holy city. Their presence not only offers boasting rights with American viewers and contributors, but also — and more controversially — a platform for spreading the gospel of Jesus Christ to Jews in Israel.

And today we read

God TV Responds to Critics: ‘We’re Not Trying to Convert Jews; We Just Want Them to Accept Jesus as the Messiah’

That is a bit of sleight-of-rhetoric. It is the Jews for Jews line, that you can be Jewish and still accept Jesus which we cannot.

God TV CEO Ward Simpson admitted he knew he was in the wrong, saying


he regretted that “some of the language I used was offensive to some folks and maybe not in keeping with what we can and cannot say on the network.”...At the same time, he refused to rule out missionizing. “The subject of preaching about Jesus is a touchy one, and we do understand that, and we have to be sensitive to it,” he said. “But that’s what we do, and that’s who we are. We’re Christians, and we’re called to go into the world and preach the gospel. That’s what we’re trained to do, and that’s what we’re doing.”

I will soon deal with that supposed obligation but first, we need know that not all pro-Israel or Christian Zionists accept that duty.

A formulation that is more considerate of the reality of the circumstances in 2020 is this of Zac Waller of HaYovel in his introduction to Christians Meet Israel:-


The words of God spoken by prophets three thousand years ago were being fulfilled in perfect detail! This reality has pushed theologians back to the drawing board, pastors to the Bible, and all Christians to fear the God of Heaven who is faithful to His promises.Why did God choose a land and people?God created the entire world. Does He show favoritism to Israel?How does Yeshua (Jesus) fit into this narrative?Was Yeshua a Zionist?God has resurrected the literal nation of Israel. How should we, as Christians, relate to it? 

And there is this from Christians for Israel International which posits that the planned broadcasts reveal:-


a certain insensitivity we Christians often have for the history of Christian persecution of the Jews, and lack of empathy for feelings of the Jewish people today.  
At Christians for Israel, we believe it is not our task as Christians at this time to tell the Jews what to do or think. Our job is to get our own house in order. We have been arrogant, we have become lukewarm, we have failed to look earnestly for Jesus’ return, and the coming of His Kingdom. And in all of that, we have for two millennia looked down upon the Jewish people and despised them.  
Of course we must witness our hope – even to Jewish people. But the best way we can do this is by repenting for 2000 years of Christian anti-Semitism, and showing mercy and love towards the Jewish people – not with words, but with our actions.  
God has never abandoned the Jewish people. The restoration of Israel shows His eternal love for the Jewish people. Let’s trust Him to bring them home – in His way and His time – as He promised. And He is doing just that. 


I will not argue the matter of Daystar but I do wish to add a bit of a theological argumentation on whether there is a need for Christians to missionize among the Jews today at all.

There is the Great Commission (itself a 17th century Lutheran term). Many Christians consider the act of spreading the Gospel and attempting to cause Jews to become Christians as, well, a...Mitzva.

Let me approach this textually in an effort to have Christians first see the othr side, that is, how we Jews see and feel.  Reading Matthew 12:41, a case could be constructed that perhaps Jews should, as Jonah did, begin preaching to non-Jews. That just like the men of Nineveh who repented at the preaching of Jonah,  "now something greater than Jonah is here". The principle is set: just like a Jew, Jonah, preached in Niveh, why not have Jews preach in Rome, or Paris or New York?

Would Christians appreciate that? Accept it? Feel comfortable?  Could it be that the instruction to missionize did not have to be applied to Jews, even though that usually is taken to simply mean non-believers, but used by Jews to proselytize among Christians?

However, let us return to the central source which, of course, is from Matthew 28:19 


"Go therefore and make disciples of all nations" 

However, the term the "nations" in the Bible does not include the Jews - for the "nations" Biblically were understood to be the alien, non-Jewish nations (and in Mark 16“Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature”) . 

Jews are of the Abrahamic Covenant already and we are not the nations. The Covenant never had been abrogated as is obvious from Israel's flowering today, our increased religiosity and the work in Judea and Samaria.

My approach can be understood, perhaps, also from Luke 24:47 who predicates repentence as being required to: “...be preached in his name to all nations”.  Do Jews need to repent? And athough added there is beginning at Jerusalem”, Jerusalem could mean various peoples in the city and not necessarily Jews . 

We Jews could have been excluded as 'targets'.

In Matthew 21:43 we read: 


"the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people producing its fruits"

That could be an explicit reference to Jews and is, in facr, the basis for replacement theology and the concept of the New Israel.

But looking around at the past 80 years of recent history and more, Jews have been quite successfully at keeping their religion flourishing and relevant to todays world and we have been successful; at returning to the Land of Israel.  Obviously,  to be generous to Christian belief, the reality is the opposite at what that preaching was intended to do,

It is wrong to missionize. I would suggest  missionizing to Jews should not apply to today (or ever) and should be halted.  Especially in a reality of a major rebuilt Jerusalem, admittedly, not yet with a Temple, and a reestablished state of the Jews and control over Judea and Samaria, this broadcast channel is not needed and the decision to grant it a license should be reversed.

There are two other sources that need be referenced as they explicitly refer to Jews.

In Romans 1:16, we read


“I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God that brings salvation to everyone who believes: first to the Jew" 

And after first turning to the Jew, what happened? Was there success?

At Acts 13:46 we see that the Apostles admitted 


“We had to speak the word of God to you [the Jews] first. Since you reject it and do not consider yourselves worthy of eternal life, we now turn to the Gentiles"?

and even then, 2000 years ago, realized it was not going to a successful project and they moved on. 

Why should Christians continue what the Church originally accepted as a doomed mission?

This was not an imperative from Jesus* but a secondary interpretation. Even then, in the 1st century, the priority or even something to be pursued was not to missionize amongst the Jews. Why centuries later missionaries attempted again, and basically failed - except to stir up bad inter-faith relations - is beyond me.

And to my Christian friends, if this reads as a bit uncomfortable to you, theologically, remember that I am not asking you to convert to Judaism. I do rigorously reject that Messianic Jews represent the genuine Judaism and these broadcasts are to encourgae that. Now, imagine how Jews feel when Chritians actually do try to subvert Jews from their Judaism.

_________

There is a petition now.
_________

*  I received a heads-up that Jesus did imply, according to Luke 15, that he sought that Jews - or perhaps only the Pharasees, - should repent as per the parable of the Lost Sheep.  But the Matthew 18 version has no identity attached to possible interpretation of the sheep.

^

Sunday, September 29, 2013

Am I Involved in "Shmad"?

Since I am involved in forging working relationships with Christians on  behalf of the Jewish People's rights in Judea and Samaria and to assure our continued presence, in security and economic strength, in our Biblical heartland, I guess I can presume that this recent report by JewishIsrael (the group that claimed I "found Jesus" and whose leader, one Avraham Leibler, asserted that I "seem to be picking up classic missionary tactics" and even suggested I "worshipped Christains"!!!) on the Shomron Council - which mentions Benjamin Council residents, too - concerns me as well, if not in all details and particulars.

That would include such charges as "Leaders Court Christian Missionaries Who Target Jews for Conversion", "turning a blind eye to the risks involved", "regularly solicit and encourage some of the very same evangelical organizations which are actively engaged in missionary activities", "this report will serve as a wake-up call for Jewish leadership", "openly cooperates with Christian and messianic missionary groups", "uses Christian imagery, cites Christian theology, and blurs the lines between faiths", "has formed a remarkable and disturbing bond", "'cover boy', so to speak, of Zola Levitt's missionary newsletter...[which] places emphasis on evangelizing and the need to build-up the messianic community in Israel" and, the 'best' of all:

"shmad" would not be an incorrect term to use for what is being allowed to occur in Israel.
 
All summed up so, that I and others:


...need to stop and think, and to use a great deal of wisdom, foresight and honesty in their dealings with evangelizing Christians. As an alternative, perhaps they should stop dealing with them altogether!  It is most tragic that Torah observant leadership in Israel has unabashedly chosen to partner with and embrace those who are determined to draw Jews away from their faith.
 
I really have not that much time to continue to respond to slurs, misquotations, misrepresentations, innuendos, guilt-by-association and other such desperate attempts by JewishIsrael to hurt and injure Rabbinic-approbated and authorized attempts in the fields of Hasbara, diplomacy and politics.  Not in theology or ecumenism.

No Jewish soul has been 'lost' in this enterprise.

We do combat active missionizing and make clear to our partners that we have zero-toleration in this matter.

I do feel that despite their disclaimer, JewishIsrael, in its over-enthusiastic attempts to "save", are deliberately, for their own uses, manipulating what goes on and what results from our activities and are hurting the national camp of which they say they are part.  They slander.

Christian Zionism, as it is termed, is not only part of the history of the establishment of the state of Israel, but fits with the prophecies that the 'foreigner' will come and then, at a later stage, attach himself to the redemptive process.

We, my friends and I, are satisfied that we are doing our best, with success in assuring that no harm will come to any Jew or the state of Israel through our efforts but that only good will be the result.

I cannot say the same for what JewishIsrael is doing in this sphere of their blogging.

And that's a shanda.

^

Saturday, March 30, 2013

Ashrawi's "Jesus is A Palestinian" Claim

Thanks to David Gerstman, I now have a reliable source for my memory of what Hanan Ashrawi said at the Madrid Conference I attended when I heard her speak to the media.

Whatever else Ashrawi is, one thing she is not is an expert in history. Caryle Murphy of the Washington Post wrote a fawning profile of Ashrawi, The Practiced Palestinian, in November 1991.
As spokeswoman for the Palestinian delegation at the Middle East peace conference here, the 45-year-old Ashrawi has been arguing that case with a composure, conciseness and clarity long missing in the bitter Palestinian-Israeli dispute. In the process, she has left many of the outworn cliches and taboos surrounding this conflict cut to ribbons. Take, for example, the man who rose at Friday's press conference to confront her. A representative of an American Christian broadcasting outlet, he said he "didn't understand" how Ashrawi could ask Israel "to exchange land for peace," because "when Judea and Samaria were in the hands of the Arab world, Israel was attacked three times."
"First of all, I find your reference to 'Judea and Samaria' a statement of extreme bias, and rather offensive," Ashrawi replied, homing in on his use of the biblical names for the occupied West Bank that echoes the Israeli government's religion-based claim to the land where Ashrawi lives and where the Palestinians hope someday to have an independent state. "I am a Palestinian Christian, and I know what Christianity is. I am a descendant of the first Christians in the world, and Jesus Christ was born in my country, in my land. Bethlehem is a Palestinian town. So I will not accept this one-upmanship on Christianity. Nobody has the monopoly."
After dismissing the man's challenge with a deft mini-dissertation, she ended with: "Are there any serious questions?"
How else would the areas have been referred to at the time of Jesus? I would think Judea and Samaria. (Yisrael Medad once noted that even the Christian bible uses the names. Ashrawi apparently doesn't know her own religion very well either.)

And I can add, this is how Bethlehem is geographically noted in the New Testament:

Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea... And they said unto him, In Bethlehem of Judaea...And thou Bethlehem, in the land of Juda...   Matthew 2:1, 5-6


^

Tuesday, October 16, 2012

We Do Not Appreciate 'Enticement'

To my friends in the Christian Zionist sphere, this is not what we need, nor is it appreciated:

"The main thing we want to do is help sponsor what we call Messianic Jews, or Jews that have received Jesus Christ as their Messiah," said TBN co-founder Paul Crouch, according to the Los Angeles Times. "We want to do some Hebrew language programs to reach out to Jews and entice them to read the word of God and become what we call a completed Jew."
_____________

UPDATE


On second thought, I think these people should be warned that they could be liable to be charged, or at least investigated, with a criminal offense.

From Israel's Penal Code:

Giving benefits to induce change of religion

174A.    If a person  gives or  promises another person money, valuable consideration or another material benefit in order  to entice him to change his religion or to cause him to entice another to change his religion, then he is liable to five years imprisonment or a fine of NS150,000.

So, what constitutes an act of 'enticement'?


^

Friday, July 06, 2012

The Mitzvah of Social Witnessing

I caught this here on the issue of divesting from companies doing business with Israel:

...pro-Palestinian activists consider the withdrawal of funds an act of social witness.
The Rev. Walt Davis, of the Israel Palestine Mission Network, a pro-Palestinian Presbyterian group, argued the denomination would have divested years ago from the companies under church’s socially responsible investment guidelines “were it not for the Israel lobby.”
“They said first that it’s anti-Semitic, then that it’s anti-Israel, then that it delegitimizes Israel. It’s none of those,” Davis said. “It’s us being true to our values.”
But the liberal-leaning Americans for Peace Now, which calls for the evacuation of Jewish settlements in the territories and supports a Palestinian state, said the Presbyterian effort was “misguided and counterproductive.”

I really wonder how active this "social witnessing" is from persons and groups engaged in anti-Israel policy operations when in comes to the rest of the Middle East.

Like in Syria.

And it is also good to know from where the theological basis for this Christian social witnessing originates:

“You shall be my witnesses in Jerusalem, Judea, Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.”

Acts 1:8

The territory of the Jewish national home.  Where Jesus, a Jew, who "was born in Bethlehem in Judea" walked and where his disciples walked such as John the Baptist who "came, preaching in the wilderness of Judea" as mentioned throughout the New Testament, like here in Acts 8:1-6:

the church which was at Jerusalem; and they were all scattered throughout the regions of Judea and Samaria, except the apostles. Therefore those who were scattered went everywhere preaching the word. Then Philip went down to the city of Samaria...

And even farther afield (Matthew 4:25):

Jerusalem, Judea and the region across the Jordan

So why are all these Christians seeking to dislodge Jews from Jerusalem, Judea and Samaria?

Why can't they be true to their values?

Or at least our Jewish values?

It would be a mitzvah.

^

Saturday, February 04, 2012

That's A Torah Scroll But That's No Rabbi

I was alerted to the "Rabbi" Messer (no one who believes this can be a Rabbi) story by friend Ellen Horowitz of JewishIsrael (although we do disagree on some issues*, her work on Christian efforts to proselytize Jews is super and suberb).

And now The Atlantic hits on it.

As CNN reports:

Bishop Eddie Long has been called anointed, but he was recently awarded another title, as shown in a video that’s gone viral. He’s now a king. Long was wrapped in a “Holocaust Torah” and crowned a king during a recent Sunday ceremony at New Birth Missionary Church, his suburban Atlanta congregation. A visiting rabbi wrapped Long in the Torah, which he said was recovered during the Holocaust. The rabbi then directed four men to lift a seated Long in his chair and parade him before the New Birth congregation.

“He is a king. God’s blessed him. He’s a humble man, but in him is kingship, royalty,” Rabbi Ralph Messer shouted...Messer leads the Simchat Torah Beit Midrash congregation in Colorado, which describes itself as a community of Jewish and non-Jewish believers in “Yeshua,” or Jesus Christ. He said the ceremony was held to honor and encourage Long because the pastor had given so much to his church, and the world.

“It was not to make Bishop Eddie L. Long a king,” Messer said in the statement. “Lifting him on the chair was to acknowledge and honor him. It is done all the time at Jewish weddings and bar mitzvahs.”

JewishIsrael further alerts -

Heads-up Jewish community leaders: Messer, who claims to have "dual citizenship in Israel", will be leading a tour to Israel in March 2012 billed as "The Land of Israel Awaits Your Return" and Jewish communities like Shiloh, with its excavations, are featured on the itinerary.

I checked and according to the tour schedule, on Sunday, March 4, 2012 the group arrives in Israel and then drives to "

the suburbs of Ariel, north of Tel Aviv. Before dinner, walk through the biblical gardens and a replica of the Tabernacle

and on the next day, they

drive to ancient Shiloh and visit the excavations of this ancient site, including the harbor, the Crusader City, the Amphitheatre, the Hippodrome and the Roman aquaduct [sic].

I think there must be a typo there since Shiloh is no where near a body of water.

In any case, "Rabbi" Messer may be greeted by some boos.

*
BTW, if you check the map here, you'll see no "messianic Jewish" groups across the Green Line. And we intend to keep it that way.

^

Friday, January 06, 2012

Congrats to Mike Cohen on his New Appointment

Announced:

Center for Jewish-Christian Understanding and Cooperation (CJCUC) in Efrat Appoints Dr. Mike Cohen as its Traveling Scholar

EFRAT, ISRAEL - Ohr Torah Stone Chancellor Rabbi Shlomo Riskin has appointed CJCUC’s Israel faculty member Dr. Mike Cohen as the first “CJCUC Traveling Scholar” with a mandate to assist and enhance the Center’s relations with the Christian communities in North America. Dr. Cohen has taken leave of his position at Bar-Ilan University’s Overseas Program in Israel to accept this appointment.

Since Rabbi Riskin’s appearances on Glenn Beck TV during the Restoring Courage events in Israel, the number of Christian clergy and leaders wishing to bring the Rabbi’s message of a Religion of Peace to their congregants has risen dramatically. “I am honored to serve Rabbi Riskin’s vision and help in a small way to facilitate a new dawn in relations between Christians and Jews,” Cohen said. “At a time when Israel appears to be isolated on the international stage, we have learned that Christians worldwide have come to be our stalwart supporters. It is imperative for both ancient biblical faith communities to join hands and bring a prayer of peace and friendship to the world.”

...CJCUC’s Executive Director David Nekrutman said...“This appointment gives CJCUC a huge opportunity to expand our network into Asia and Europe, while Dr. Cohen continues to advance the relations in North America that I have developed over the last four years.”

Cohen is a graduate of Yeshiva University and the City University of New York and is the editor of Ordinary People Extraordinary Spirit (2004); He is now working on a project that will highlight non-Jewish contributions to the rebirth of the Jewish State. CJCUC is affiliated with Ohr Torah Stone in Efrat, the largest private educational institution in Israel with 3,000 students and 16 campuses in the Gush Etzion, Efrat and Jerusalem areas. The Center is first orthodox Jewish organization to religiously dialogue with the Christian world. To book Dr. Cohen at your place of worship, please contact CJCUC at 516-882-3220.

Success for the People of Israel, the Torah of Israel, the spirit of Israel and the Land of Israel to my good friend and comrade, Mike Cohen.

We need coalition umbrella unity in our actions with the Christian Zionist world and I look forward to much achievement.

^

Saturday, October 15, 2011

Jesus and Shiloh

I accompanied two tour guides on a refresher walkabout at Tel Shiloh last week.  There have been some new excavations, as my regular readers know, and they wanted to update.

One element is, of course, the Christian connection to Shiloh.  We have discovered three basillicas, each one with beautiful mosaic floors, and each one larger than the other: the Pilgrims' Church, the Danish Church and the New Church is how we refer to them.

The connection between Jesus, Shiloh and The Ark of the Covenant is found in several verses in the Torah and in the New Testament:

a)
Exodus 25:18 And thou shalt make two angels of gold, of beaten work shalt thou make them, in the two ends of the mercy seat.
John 20:12 And seeth two angels in white sitting, the one at the head, and the other at the feet, where the body of Jesus had lain.

b)
Genesis 49:10 The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be.

"The sceptre shall not depart from Judah"
Jesus is the Lion of Judah - Revelation 5:5
But unto the Son a sceptre of righteousness - Hebrews 1:8

And at the new church we have found this inscription:


which translates as "Lord Jesus Christ, have mercy on Shiloh and its inhabitants"

second inscription was found at a bapistery:


which reads: "Lord Jesus Christ, remember and consider worthy in your kingdom Eutonius your bishop and Germanus your holy regional bishop. Draw near to Him and be enlightened."

Other photographs are here and also here.

And a third:




which reads, "Lord Christ, help your servant."

And we recall their discovery:

04 Dec 2006

Archaeologists claimed yesterday to have uncovered one of the world's first churches, built on a site believed to have once housed the Ark of the Covenant.

The site, emerging from the soil in a few acres in the hills of the Israeli occupied West Bank, is richly decorated with brightly coloured mosaics and inscriptions referring to Jesus Christ.

 According to the team, led by Yitzhak Magen and Yevgeny Aharonovitch, the church dates to the late 4th century, making it one of Christianity's first formal places of worship.

"I can't say for sure at the moment that it's the very first church," said Mr Aharonovitch, 38, as he oversaw a team carrying out the final excavations before winter yesterday. "But it's certainly one of the first." He said the site contained an extremely unusual inscription which referred to itself, Shiloh, by name.

"That is very rare and shows early Christians treated this as an ancient, holy place," said Mr Aharonovitch.

For a general view of mosaic floor and other pictures here and here.

And here's a fourth inscription which I snapped of a dedication of a bench:


(Photo credit: YMedad)


And a fifth inscription.
^

Friday, August 26, 2011

Sorry, But No Proselytizing, Please

I boarded bus #148 from the Central Egged Bus Station in Jerusalem today at 13:00 to return home to Shiloh.

On the seat next to me I found a booklet, in Hebrew, entitled "Ben David" or, "Son of David", decked with Israeli flags on a background of Jerusalem's Old City walls:


Now, since the Yeshiva at Eli is called "Bnei David", someone could presume there is a Jewish connection but I knew otherwise (I have had 50 years of experience, actually). It was a missionary tract, a new translation in Hebrew of the Book of Matthew, and see below* on the anti-Semitism therein, sponsored by a nasty messianic Christian effort whose Statement of Faith parallels most of this group's statement, which is linked to at their site.

Here it is:


This is an act of proselytizing. Whoever you are, you are distributing articles of faith of a different religion with the intent of influencing Jews to convert.

I know you think that that is what being a good Christian is. But it is not. And yes, I do know some Christians really are upset at our reluctance to permit full-scale missionizing attempts and even slide into hate speech. As the US State Department's annual report notes:

A 1977 anti-proselytizing law prohibits any person from offering or receiving material benefits as an inducement to conversion; however, there have been no reports of the law's enforcement. A bill that would have restricted proselytizing further was promulgated in 2000; however, similar bills did not reach a final vote in the past and local observers do not believe that this bill will be enacted. Christian and other evangelical groups asserted that the draft bills were discriminatory and served to intimidate Christian groups. Missionaries are allowed to proselytize, although the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (Mormons) voluntarily refrains from proselytizing under an agreement with the Government.

The law adopted into our Penal Code reads
Giving benefits to induce change of religion

174A.If a person gives or promises another person money, valuable consideration or another material benefit in order to entice him to change his religion or to cause him to entice another to change his religion, then he is liable to five years imprisonment or a fine of NS150,000.
Receiving benefit for change of religion

174B. If a person accepts or agrees to accept money, valuable consideration or another material benefit for the promise to change his religion or to cause another person to change his religion, then he is liable to three years imprisonment or a fine of NS49,800.

Change of a minor's religion

368. (a) If a person performs a religious conversion ceremony of a minor or performs some other act that leads to the change of a minor's religion, in violation of the provisions of section 13A of the Capacity and Guardianship Law 5722-1962, then he is liable to six months imprisonment.
(b) If a person induces a minor, by addressing him directly, to change his religion, then he is liable to six months imprisonment.

You may think that draconian (a futher tightening of restrictions was rejected [in Hebrew]) but there's a good reason for what is the law ro be the law of the land, the Land of Israel. All faiths and those of no faith are free to practice their religious beliefs in Israel. You can come here and do good deeds and do charity. Stealing Jewish souls, for that is what proselytizing is, is not a good deed. We do not practice that and as Hillel, who predated Christianity, said, "do not do unto others what you would not want done unto you."

Good and normative relations are being built between Christians and Jews in Judea and Samaria based on the recognition that if you believe in the Bible, then you must believe that what we are doing in Judea and Samaria is good and contributes to the ultimate benefit of all mankind. What we are doing is correct and right and has been prophesied.

Let us get on with our work, unhindered, or at least with positive assistance, and all will be better. We have much that could be shared but that doesn't mean that you have the freedom to feel that you can 'snatch'. Our other shared history is too painful to be gone over but know, we recall and remember and we have not fully reached the level of forgiveness and, to be truthful, there is no reason we should.

But we can look forward to a future in which we all can gain - but without any feelings of mistrust and suspicion on our part, which would be caused by the activity I described at the beginning of this post.  There is much to be lost.  Be careful, if only for your co-religionists who approach the task of being part of Jewish national reconstitution and their efforts be harmed.

Can we agree on that?

_______________

*
Although the Gospel of Matthew is considered to be the "most Jewish" of the Gospels, it contains one of the most anti-Jewish passages found in the Second Testament. Probably located in Syrian Antioch, the Matthean community defined itself over and against the synagogue.

Thus, the term "Jews" in the Gospel represents those who deny the resurrection and believe that the disciples stole Jesus's corpse (28:13-15). Through Jesus, membership in the one people of God is extended to include the Gentiles (24:14; 28:16-20; see also Great Commission), but they do not replace the Jews (4:18-13:58). Both Jew and Gentile participate in God's plan for salvation.

As Matthew's narrative marches toward the passion, the anti-Jewish rhetoric increases. In chapter 21, the parable of the vineyard (to which we have already referred) is followed by the great "stone" text, an early christological midrash of Psalm 118:22-23: "The stone that the builders rejected has become the cornerstone" (Matt. 21:42). Then, in chapters 23 and 24, three successive hostile pericopes are recorded. First, a series of "woes" are pronounced against the Pharisees: "you testify against yourselves that you are descendants of those who murdered the prophets...You snakes, you brood of vipers! How can you escape being sentenced to hell?" (23:31, 33).

According to the New Testament Gospels, Jesus, on his fateful entry into Jerusalem before Passover, was received by a great crowd of people. Jesus was arrested and purportedly tried by the Sanhedrin. After the trial, Jesus was handed over to Pontius Pilate, who duly tried him again and, at the urging of the people, had him crucified.

Then, Jesus laments over the capital: "Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to it...See, your house is left to you, desolate" (23:37-38). And finally, Jesus predicts the demise of the Temple: "Truly I tell you, not one stone will be left here upon another; all will be thrown down" (24:2b).

The culmination of this rhetoric, and arguably the one verse that has caused more Jewish suffering than any other second Testament passage, is the uniquely Matthean attribution to the Jewish people: "His [Jesus's] blood be on us and on our children!" (27:25). This so-called "blood guilt" text has been interpreted to mean that "all Jews, of Jesus' time and forever afterward, accept the responsibility and blame for Jesus' death."

^

Friday, April 01, 2011

Christian or...Jewish?

Don't forget to read the P.S.
===================


From a BBC report: (to be followed by my comments/observations):-

A group of 70 or so "books", each with between five and 15 lead leaves bound by lead rings, was apparently discovered in a remote arid valley in northern Jordan somewhere between 2005 and 2007. A flash flood had exposed two niches inside the cave, one of them marked with a menorah or candlestick, the ancient Jewish religious symbol.

A Jordanian Bedouin opened these plugs, and what he found inside might constitute extremely rare relics of early Christianity...The director of the Jordan's Department of Antiquities, Ziad al-Saad, says the books might have been made by followers of Jesus in the few decades immediately following his crucifixion.  "They will really match, and perhaps be more significant than, the Dead Sea Scrolls," says Mr Saad.

...The books, or "codices", were apparently cast in lead, before being bound by lead rings.  Their leaves - which are mostly about the size of a credit card - contain text in Ancient Hebrew, most of which is in code.

If the relics are of early Christian origin rather than Jewish, then they are of huge significance.

...David Elkington, a scholar of ancient religious archaeology...believes the most telling evidence for an early Christian origin lies in the images decorating the covers of the books and some of the pages of those which have so far been opened...."In the upper square [of one of the book covers] we have the seven-branch menorah, which Jews were utterly forbidden to represent because it resided in the holiest place in the Temple in the presence of God.

"So we have the coming of the messiah to approach the holy of holies, in other words to get legitimacy from God."

...[says Philip Daviesthere are] plates cast into a picture map of the holy city of Jerusalem...so obviously a Christian image..."There is a cross in the foreground, and behind it is what has to be the tomb [of Jesus], a small building with an opening, and behind that the walls of the city. There are walls depicted on other pages of these books too and they almost certainly refer to Jerusalem."..."[say Margaret Barker that another] one of the things that is most likely pointing towards a Christian provenance, is that these are not scrolls but books. The Christians were particularly associated with writing in a book form rather than scroll form, and sealed books in particular as part of the secret tradition of early Christianity."

...Another potential link with the Bible is contained in one of the few fragments of text from the collection to have been translated. It appears with the image of the menorah and reads "I shall walk uprightly", a sentence that also appears in the Book of Revelation.  While it could be simply a sentiment common in Judaism, it could here be designed to refer to the resurrection...

Well, seems there a lot more Jewish elements than Christian. Like the Menorah which surely was niot "utterly forbidden to represent". Like the langauge, Hebrew, rather than Aramaic.
As for that 'upright walk', it appears in another form but using the same Hebrew root ×–×§×£ in Psalms 146:8:

The LORD openeth the eyes of the blind; the LORD raiseth up them that are bowed down; the LORD loveth the righteous;

As for the cross, well, I guess we'll keep our fingers crossed and wait for an analysis, if the books becmae available for study.


P.S.

A forgery.

^

Thursday, February 24, 2011

The Corruption of Religious Thinking

I blogged in November on the Christian attack, originating from liberal and progressive ideology, on Christian Zionism and on the claim Zionism makes, even by its secular proponents, that it is a fulfillment of religious tradition. That attack continues.

Here is one opinion, of Daniel C. Maguire, a professor of moral theology at Marquette University, a Catholic, Jesuit Institution, and past president of The Society of Christian Ethics from a year ago writing

Israel’s conservative government ignores the “back to the 1967 borders” solution since it would take away their prime excuse for imperial expansion and their claim of unique victimhood and insecurity... The prophet Micah is looking more and more like a realist. Before it is too late, Israel and the United States should remember the words of Micah. You cannot build “Zion in bloodshed” (Micah 3:10). Zechariah said it also: “Neither by force of arms nor by brute strength” would the people be saved (Zech. 4:6). The United States and Israel, these twinned amnesiacs, forget prophetic wisdom to their own peril and undoing.
In another "admission" piece he writes of:

fits of brutality and the retreat into religious mythology that have characterized some Israeli governments, especially under the Likud.

and claims, ludicrously, that he is "Jewish" and that his

coming out as a Jew would certainly surprise my Irish Catholic parents...My coming out as a Jew would also surprise Benjamin Netanyahu, especially when I insist that I am more Jewish than he is.  Did I convert to Judaism? No need to do that. I just became Jewish, I absorbed Jewishness as my ego and personality was being constructed. It was a matter of osmosis...

See his "piracy" comparison of Israel with Somalia. 

This is plain silliness.  But he attempts to be a serious theologian and he quotes Scripture, which the Devil does well, too. His ultimate goal, though, is to zero in on the "Special Relationship" between Israel and the United States:

Israel and the United States have a unique relationship, one so close that Israel has been called the 51st state, a privileged state that pays no U.S. taxes and receives ten million dollars a day in aid, more than any other country, except perhaps Iraq. The prime alleged reason for this intimate bonding is a shared commitment to democracy, with Israel being, allegedly, a bastion of democracy in a hostile Middle East. As ever in statecraft, the alleged is rarely the real...Severe criticism is a service to both nations. The acknowledgment of guilt is the beginning of wisdom and the first step to peace.

1. Both nations were founded on ethnic cleansing
2. Both Israel and the United States claim religious warranty for their existence and expansionism.
3. Both the United States and Israel claim their special security needs justify violence, unchecked militarism, torture, violations of human rights and international law, and imperial expansion.
4. Both the United States and Israel are sacrificing their original idealism at the altar of empire.
5. Both the United States and Israel define their national identity in morally normative terms.
6. Both the United States and Israel preach nuclear disarmament while armed to the teeth with nuclear weapons
7. Both the United States and Israel use strategic amnesia as policy to cover over inconvenient imperialist, expansionist, and genocidal truths. It acts as cover for all six of the just listed unflattering similarities.

This orientation of inter-related Marxist, post-modern and progressive themes, utlizing theological frameworks, is nothing but a twisting of intent and purpose. It is a mixing of concepts, applying sources to radical philosophy in a disjointed attempt to undermine the most moral and ethical ideals - assuring the existence and security of the Jewish people in its national homeland.

Maguire dares to quote Micha and does so selectively.  Here's from Chapter 4 which envisions a renewed Jewish Temple on the Temple Mount and the non-Jewish nations making a pilgrimage to the restored Jewish sovereignty with the return of the dispersed Jewish people to Zion and champion Israel against all assembled against her:

1 But in the end of days it shall come to pass, that the mountain of the LORD'S house shall be established as the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills; and peoples shall flow unto it. 2 And many nations shall go and say: 'Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, and to the house of the God of Jacob; and He will teach us of His ways, and we will walk in His paths'; for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem. 3 And He shall judge between many peoples, and shall decide concerning mighty nations afar off; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks; nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more. 4 But they shall sit every man under his vine and under his fig-tree; and none shall make them afraid; for the mouth of the LORD of hosts hath spoken. 5 For let all the peoples walk each one in the name of its god, but we will walk in the name of the LORD our God for ever and ever. 6 In that day, saith the LORD, will I assemble her that halteth, and I will gather her that is driven away, and her that I have afflicted; 7 And I will make her that halted a remnant, and her that was cast far off a mighty nation; and the LORD shall reign over them in mount Zion from thenceforth even for ever. 8 And thou, Migdal-eder, the hill of the daughter of Zion, unto thee shall it come; yea, the former dominion shall come, the kingdom of the daughter of Jerusalem. 9 Now why dost thou cry out aloud? Is there no King in thee, is thy Counsellor perished, that pangs have taken hold of thee as of a woman in travail? 10 Be in pain, and labour to bring forth, O daughter of Zion, like a woman in travail; for now shalt thou go forth out of the city, and shalt dwell in the field, and shalt come even unto Babylon; there shalt thou be rescued; there shall the LORD redeem thee from the hand of thine enemies. 11 And now many nations are assembled against thee, that say: 'Let her be defiled, and let our eye gaze upon Zion.' 12 But they know not the thoughts of the LORD, neither understand they His counsel; for He hath gathered them as the sheaves to the threshing-floor.

He quotes Zachariah but ignores Chapter 12:

 3 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will make Jerusalem a stone of burden for all the peoples; all that burden themselves with it shall be sore wounded; and all the nations of the earth shall be gathered together against it. 4 In that day, saith the LORD, I will smite every horse with bewilderment, and his rider with madness; and I will open Mine eyes upon the house of Judah, and will smite every horse of the peoples with blindness. 5 And the chiefs of Judah shall say in their heart: 'The inhabitants of Jerusalem are my strength through the LORD of hosts their God.' 6 In that day will I make the chiefs of Judah like a pan of fire among the wood, and like a torch of fire among sheaves; and they shall devour all the peoples round about, on the right hand and on the left; and Jerusalem shall be inhabited again in her own place, even in Jerusalem. 7 The LORD also shall save the tents of Judah first, that the glory of the house of David and the glory of the inhabitants of Jerusalem be not magnified above Judah. 8 In that day shall the LORD defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that stumbleth among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David shall be as a godlike being, as the angel of the LORD before them. 9 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem. 10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplication; and they shall look unto Me because they have thrust him through; and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his first-born.

The portrayal of a Biblical prophetic pacifism, of a weak Israel, of an Israel that will not be restored to political primacy is, well, since we are in a religious framework of reference, evil.

And a university employs him.

^

Monday, December 15, 2008

Has A Rabbi Been Compromising With Christian Zionists? Or Not?

From a post Ellen Horowitz put up at my wife's blog:

Rabbi Riskin’s Center, touted as “the first Orthodox Jewish center to theologically dialogue with Christians”, recently issued the following press release:

Orthodox Chief Rabbi Meets With Latin Patriarch Of Jerusalem

(Excerpt)

....The meeting between the Rabbi Riskin and the Latin Patriarch was coordinated by Gary Krupp, founder and president of Pave the Way Foundation, an organization that bridges the gaps between religions. Krupp is organizing the first ever Lyon, France religious leaders mission to visit Israel in March of 2009. The group will be hosted both by the Latin Patriarch and Rabbi Riskin.

Just who is Gary Krupp and what does the Pave the Way Foundation do?

“Vatican Knight Gary Krupp and wife Meredith of Long Beach are Jews with strong ties to Rome”,

"I was knighted by Pope John Paul II, then knighted by the Anglica church, and then knighted by Pope Benedict and I'm Jewish!"

According to Pave the Way Foundation’s brochure, “Being a trusted member of the Papal household has enabled him [Krupp] to act as a catalyst in initiating changes and eliminating many obstacles to the furtherance of Judeo-Christian relations. Gary has also been invested, by permission of Her Majesty, Queen Elizabeth II, as an Officer Brother in the Anglican Order of St. John.”

If you ever wanted to know what a court Jew looks like, I imagine it’s something like this (just look at all of Gary’s little crosses!)

A fatwa on Krupp

As long as we’re on the topic of honor, Gary Krupp was awarded “the Fatwa of Al-Aqsa” from the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem. (Like I said, you can’t make this stuff up) And I was going to suggest that someone should really ask Mr. Krupp if perhaps the Grand Mufti didn’t put out a fatwa on him for having approached Al Aqsa. But then I saw it. It does exist on the Pave the Way Foundation site. Top row center - running smack through the center of the State of Israel is the Fatwa of Al-Aqsa. And prominently featured in the center right of Pave the Way foundation’s brochure is Rabbi Riskin’s endorsement of that organization.

But wait. It was three years ago, in late October of 2005, that Rabbi Riskin’s office told this writer that Rabbi Riskin would request that his name be removed as a sponsor of Pave the Way Foundation due to the organization’s efforts to get Israel to give control to the Vatican of the room above the traditional burial site of King David. I guess Rabbi Riskin has since changed his mind, as the updated literature once again sports Rabbi Riskin’s endorsement of the Pave the Way Foundation.

Supper over Mt. Zion:

Krupp has unrelentingly campaigned for the return of the Cenacle Shrine to Catholic control.

According to Krupp, it’s “one of the most important sites for Christianity… It’s where Jesus first broke the matzo that Christians remember at each Mass….The Catholic Church has owned it since the 11th century. They have a bill of sale...It only makes sense now that it goes back to Catholic jurisdiction.”


Well, Mr. Krupp, this writer believes that High Mass at the Kever Dovid HaMelech complex could really throw a wrench into one’s davening, and Gregorian chants are likely to disturb Gemorah classes at the Diaspora Yeshiva - which operates the campus and manages the Mt. Zion complex.

Some of you may recall that three years ago the Committee to Save Mt. Zion played a pivotal role in upsetting ongoing Vatican efforts to gain control of “the Last Supper Room (Cenacle Shrine)”

It was Gary Krupp and his Pave the Way Foundation which has been acting as a facilitator in the Vatican – Israel property negotiations of the past few years. And it remains high on his agenda, although his most recent literature makes a special point that “use” of the Shrine “will not disturb the Tomb of King David below or the Yeshiva on the ground level”


I’m certainly no scholar, but it was my understanding that there is an absolute halachic prohibition of Jews giving away land in Eretz Yisrael to non-Jews, worse so to Ovdei Avodah Zara, worse so when being done as a gift. Perhaps Rabbi Riskin could shed some light on this, and offer some clarification.

Rehabilitating Pope Pius XII

Another one of Krupp’s papal priorities is to see to it that Pope Pius Xll has any anti-Semitic blemishes removed so that the Vatican can proceed with his beautification process without Jewish sensitivities getting in the way. And so last September Pave the Way Foundation sponsored an international symposium of scholars and rabbis.

...Krupp told Catholic News Service after the audience that Pope Benedict "was very appreciative" of the organization's extensive research, which had revealed clearly that the current negative perception of Pope Pius "is completely wrong.".....

Krupp uses David Nekrutman of Rabbi Riskin’s center to bolster Pave the Way Foundation and the Vatican’s position:

David Nekrutman, executive director of the Israeli–based Center for Jewish–Christian Understanding and Cooperation, told CNS the exhibit at Yad Vashem should be taken down “until it’s done correctly.”

Nekrutman, who knows Krupp from his past – as Director of Community and Interfaith Relations for the Consulate General of Israel in New York - can also be seen on YOUTUBE as he gets an “awakening call” and is “transformed” as he discovers, “whatever I was taught from day one about the Catholic church and Pope Pius was wrong.”

To be fair, Rabbi Riskin and David Nekrutman are not the only Torah Observant Jews who have had dealings with Gary Krupp, the “trusted member of the Papal household” (does that make him a house Jew?).

Ronny Levy of MADP Tarshish Foundation recently dined and “broke bread together” with the Krupps, “a Catholic priest, two Protestants, and two Palestinian Muslims.”

Levy is the personal advisor to the President of the Franciscan Foundation for the Holy Land and served as an advisor to the former chairman of the Knesset Christian Allies Caucus. I will give you more on Mr. Levy in my next report, but here’s a little preview:

“As an orthodox Jew of the Levy tribe, son of an orthodox family of 11 generations in Jerusalem, educated all his life in orthodox schools and yeshivas, I can guarantee you that when the day of Salvation arrives God will open our eyes, and if God shows us that Jesus is the Messiah, we will receive him with love and joy! We do not turn our backs on God and His message! If He sends Jesus as His Messiah we will have to accept Him! We will be unable to turn our back on God!”

Conclusion:

By opening the “first Orthodox Jewish center to theologically dialogue with Christians”,I believe Rabbi Riskin has compromised the currently accepted halacha, and consequently puts at risk our spiritual continuity and imperils our future in a Jewish Israel.



For updates see soon this site: JewishIsrael.com

Wednesday, November 19, 2008

Theology Is A Dangerous Subject

This is not the story I like reading, even if it originates in Australia:

Baptist raises hell in Jewish dialogue

A BAPTIST pastor has admitted telling Jewish leaders that Jews were "going to hell" and faced a fate "worse than the Holocaust" because they had not accepted Jesus as their saviour....Mr Harris, a US-trained minister from Virginia, said his comments applied to all people who rejected Jesus, not only Jews, and were based in scripture. "The Bible says that all have sinned and all are worthy of hell," he told the Herald. "That includes everyone, until we receive Jesus as our saviour.

...Mr Harris said his comments were made in a private meeting "in my lounge room" and admitted using the word "holocaust" but said it was Biblical language. "I explained that I love the Jewish people very much and that some awful times were coming for them but I did not wish that upon them at all."

Wednesday, December 19, 2007

Sabbah Botches It

It seems that news agencies are reporting that Jerusalem's Latin Patriarch rejects Israel's Jewish identity and according to Reuters:

Jerusalem's Latin Patriarch criticised Israel on Wednesday for insisting Palestinians recognise it as a Jewish state and said God made the Holy Land for Muslims and Christians too. Michel Sabbah, the Holy Land's Roman Catholic leader, said in his annual Christmas message that the Israeli-Palestinian conflict had unleashed "forces of evil" across the Middle East and it was up to Israel to make a relaunched peace process work.

...Sabbah said he was concerned about Israeli demands, rebuffed by the Palestinians, that Israel be recognised as a Jewish state because that would discriminate against Muslims and Christians. "God made this land for all three of us, so a suitable state is one who can adapt itself to the vocation of this land," said Sabbah, who was born in Nazareth, a town where Christians believe Jesus was raised and which is now part of Israel. If it's Jewish, it's not Muslim or Christian...If there's a state of one religion, other religions are naturally discriminated against," Latin Patriarch Michel Sabbah told reporters at the annual press conference he holds in Jerusalem before the Christian holiday...Sabbah said Israel should abandon its Jewish character in favor of a political, normal state for Christians, Muslims and Jews. "This land cannot be exclusive for anyone," he said. [And see this news report, as well]

Well, this is a bit of a problem. Instead of lashing out at the persons or the culture or the political framework which is killing Christians, raping their women, torching their churches and causing them to exit their homes - the Palestine Authority, if my intention was not clear (see here and here and better, here) - Sabbah not only ignores the harsh reality he is seen to be covering up but also illustrates a quite vicious theological interpretation which I am the many non-Jewish readers of this blog do not share.

First of all, as any theologian knows, there is a difference between the "Land" as intrinsically being geographically sacred, whether to Judaism, Christianity or Islam, and as to what degree, and the "State" which is but a political framework. Whereas Christianity may separate the two (""Render unto Cesar the things that are Caesar; and to God, the things that are God’s" - Mark 12:17), we Jews do not. But that intrinsic character does not mean absolute exclusion.

Christians and Muslims have not be ghettoized in Israel as Jews were in Europe and the Arab Middle East. Pogroms and Farhud were the lot of the Jews but not of Arabs here. [further reading]

But secondly, the Bible assure mankind that there will be an era of redemption. Here's Isaiah, Chapter 2:

2 It shall happen in the latter days, that the mountain of the Lord's house shall be established on the top of the mountains, And shall be raised above the hills; And all nations shall flow to it. 3 Many peoples shall go and say, "Come, let's go up to the mountain of the Lord, To the house of the God of Jacob; And he will teach us of his ways, And we will walk in his paths. For out of Zion the law shall go forth, And the word of the Lord from Jerusalem. 4 He will judge between the nations, And will decide concerning many peoples; And they shall beat their swords into plowshares, And their spears into pruning-hooks. Nation shall not lift up sword against nation, Neither shall they learn war any more.

Can Sabbah presume to stand in the way of Biblical prophecy? Is he negating the scriptual word? There will be nations and peoples and no one is forced to become Jewish. But the ultimate message there is that G-d, as the Divine presence and motivating force, will be recognized by all. And that is why the Jews need to be sovereign in the Land of Israel. Not to exclude but to permit all the nations and beliefs to benefit from the spiritual, moral and cultural advantages that the Jews have highlighted throughout their history.

Of course, if the land is Jewish it is not Christian or Muslim. Jesus knew that when he came, as a worshipper, to the Temple. The Islamic Haddith sought to identify Muhammed with Jerusalem although the Quran and the historical record attest otherwise. But I don't seek to extend Jewishness to Mecca where no non-Muslim can be in nor to Rome from where Sabbah's authority stems.

Isaiah speaks not of war but of peace. Would that other religious leaders learn that simple message that we Jews know.

Thursday, August 16, 2007

Rapturous Future?

Interesting theological developments:-

GALLAGHER: So are we really on the road to Armageddon? Middle East expert and writer of End Times fiction Joel Rosenberg has few doubts the Rapture is on the way.

ROSENBERG: You have the Rapture, then the rise of the Antichrist, and then a terrible period of seven years of terrible war and famine and plague. This is known as the tribulation. And it's at the end of the tribulation that this massive attack on Israel, known as Armageddon, will happen, and then the second coming of Jesus.

[end video clip]

ZAHN: All right, Delia, we need your help. You just rolled through an awful lot of terms. We went from Rapture to the Antichrist, tribulation. Explain this to us.

GALLAGHER: Right. OK. So we're going to go through each of these terms so that we get them down because we can't talk about this topic until we know what they're talking about. We've put up a couple of graphics so that's going to help the audience follow along for a moment.

ZAHN: It's going to help all of us.

GALLAGHER: Yes. So first of all, with the Rapture. The Rapture is this idea, which by the way is not in the Bible specifically, but it is this period of time when they say Christians are going to be taken up into heaven and waiting there while all of this tribulation goes on on Earth, as it were. They say it can happen at any time, that's why you hear a lot of the preachers saying you better be prepared because you're going to be Raptured at any time when you least expect it. That's the idea of the Rapture.

Then the tribulation is when this period of seven years, they say, it's going to be wars and trials on earth. We are not in it yet, according to them, but you will hear them talking about pre-tribulation and post-tribulation. This is the time when the Antichrist, whoever he or she may be, this figure they say is going to come to power and all of the countries are going to align behind this Antichrist leading to Armageddon, this big war. The term is taken from Mount Megiddo in Israel, it's an actual place in the Bible. And in the Bible it says on this mountain there will be the kings will gather.

From that, they decided there's going to be this huge battle of good and evil, and at that time at Armageddon, the world as we know it, they say, will be destroyed, and they say "as we know it" because there follows a thousand-year period of peace, and that is a period when those Christians who have been Raptured come back down to earth with Jesus, and a thousand-year period of peace follows.

So they say that the world doesn't actually end, that they actually have this wonderful time of peace. Now, you know, the fact is that these periods of Rapture and tribulation and so on are also preceded by signs and they say that some of these signs we are already seeing right now.